From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JmaQh-0007Mj-RA for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:10:00 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 63717E0768; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:09:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F31DE0768 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:09:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c48so224398wra.1 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:09:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=gMnXSh4xHds0645Tu/QwWZveq1z0iSeH2GOMx5LeN+Y=; b=uovxnPh0mCBxPQ+FPgHgfdDuqctlw4EiiTQnyo9KJ1K+SDOCKGhhOCnaeH6xrxhkgn/F/unn6gH3KIx1/L3GHTxbpQ3pcw/BKXPnh1WC8rJPCdn5zeQvlxnZaYzT3XeDCxFoDN3ZTKWD2Wt/zL37iEk4u7PMiIdUBlOAVYXdEaQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jkQW2FK58phna/84ar1lWxZfXl6fPaeZmZ9+qJ1B7jT7xeQTp2CvXJEIos+GtcW/D+cSHizoTkZANJQlmIgiRwCwQ/DT0kH0i1LnrMlbRfjkvLZ2jdUQUEVCgYWQyjde4c8/wqLJqfQ6AqSvqYMeZQXPeaGwDN2/Hf1YK2Cxt1I= Received: by 10.140.163.3 with SMTP id l3mr19060rve.117.1208462997168; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.142.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8b4c83ad0804171309x743a2b6cq42f4fd2bc75f3980@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:39:57 +0530 From: "Nirbheek Chauhan" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] PostgreSQL Status In-Reply-To: <20080417194534.GI31409@nibiru.local> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4807115C.6090904@gentoo.org> <20080417164003.GB31409@nibiru.local> <8b4c83ad0804170952s5728a968v60f04f30a66e3a25@mail.gmail.com> <20080417170753.GE31409@nibiru.local> <8b4c83ad0804171029v2e37bb06i98431e96dce2876c@mail.gmail.com> <20080417184745.GG31409@nibiru.local> <8b4c83ad0804171207r2690f9bdx3d99d72d1c1b13da@mail.gmail.com> <20080417194534.GI31409@nibiru.local> X-Archives-Salt: 3329cfd0-bebd-420c-a394-9305a24226ef X-Archives-Hash: e2fdbdea379891964f3b02ee6e2c3fbc On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > * Nirbheek Chauhan schrieb: > > Manuals, yes, documentation, not necessarily. Documentation is often > > *built* from the source code, or it's source is included with the > > package source code and docs are generated at compile-time. > > ACK. But we first should define what's "just documentation" > (things like readme's, changelogs, etc) and what's and separate > manual (book). There's often no general answer for that. Individual > package maintainers have to decide this. I agree with you here, it's the maintainer's call. > > Now, there are lots of similar examples where USE flags exist purely > > to pull in run-time deps that don't require the package to be > > recompiled for usage, and not being able to specify such deps in an > > ebuild is a deficiency on the package manager side. The proper > > solution is to fix the package manager, not to split out such things > > into separate packages. It generates chaos and inconsistency in the > > tree, and only delays the fixing of the package manager by giving > > half-baked solutions. > > We have virtuals. Properly used they can be a great mechanism for > solving this. > > One example, where it (IMHO) isn't done properly, is the X-server, where > adding another driver (which *IS* an separate package, already from upstream) > causes the whole server to be rebuild and also produces ugly circular deps > (yes, I know of the PDEPEND workaround). > x11-base/xorg-server SHOULD be an virtual. > (I already sucessfully did this quite some time ago, but meanwhile its outdated) This too, just like split ebuilds, is (imo) a hack, and not the solution. A hack that's used in the tree in several places (-meta ebuilds, xorg-server), and seems more "Gentoo-ish", but a hack nonetheless, and hence a half-baked solution that delays the package manager's fixing. Maybe I'm just pushing too hard here, but the state of Gentoo's package managers really irks me, and these workarounds just give temporary relief to the problem. > > One reason I can think of is that people expect USE=doc to give them > > documentation. They expect that a "doc" USE flag on a package will > > give them the documentation. > > Right, but again we're at the question, what really belongs to the docs. > According your argumentation, the GCC programming guide should be also > pulled in by the doc usflag. Do you really want this ? Well, I think you answered this in your first paragraph above, that it's entirely upto the maintainer. If it were upto me, I'd go with pulling in the following with the doc USE flag: - Documentation generated from the source code - Documentation generated *with* the source code - Documentation distributed with the source code (inside the tarball) - Documentation distributed/advertised alongside the package/source code (for instance GIMP help files) -- ~Nirbheek Chauhan -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list