From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1FbcxK-0000gL-UG for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 04 May 2006 12:29:19 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k44CS8we017926; Thu, 4 May 2006 12:28:08 GMT Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.195]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k44CLvKu005646 for ; Thu, 4 May 2006 12:21:58 GMT Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id n29so407477nzf for ; Thu, 04 May 2006 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Zuh3/Sws6xPIRa8KKz/YEFcDhZ3z7wo/Jt39ZEL3/FaHogvVE1xI8wsw5TUwwvXxJTat6rtrTIxXlYF26est3TBvqkbpzcCX92r5v9B5NRnA0/gMNSxEae9nAWytfZa7E1Y5mAz/4m4WiTaLfJNECArsB4Utq47YIeYXrY53OWM= Received: by 10.65.139.14 with SMTP id r14mr36323qbn; Thu, 04 May 2006 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.107.11 with HTTP; Thu, 4 May 2006 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8a0028260605040521y768be337w63e3f4689b7500f2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 13:21:57 +0100 From: "Jeff Rollin" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: When will KDE 3.5 be marked as stable? In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2109_28882540.1146745317312" References: <200604040114.01418@enterprise.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org> <623652d50604040212r6f543d37pedb645e979456755@mail.gmail.com> <63052.69.136.169.173.1144147119.squirrel@www.aei-tech.com> <20060404121850.GD6101@sympatico.ca> X-Archives-Salt: da87869f-f706-4804-a331-3a2db06e0808 X-Archives-Hash: 89a7b10d361ee98c64f4bec70af2d09e ------=_Part_2109_28882540.1146745317312 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline All, If I might weigh in at this late stage: How did we end up here in the first place? Isn't the point of ~arch that we can put stuff here that might WELL be unstable? Sure, we'll get lots of "I set my ACCEPT_KEYWORDS to ~arch and now my system is broken," messages, but if people are going to try ~arch, or Gentoo in general, despite warnings that it's "not for newbies" (and I have personal experience of this), we can't really stop them without turning the community into a fascist state, can we? Gentoo (like all projects) has a finite amount of developers, and i= f we spend to much time on ~arch then surely arch will suffer Just my 0.2 cents (sic) Jeff. On 04/05/06, Bart Braem wrote: > > (sorry if you receive this mail twice, my subscription was not ok) > > Philip Webb wrote: > > > 060404 Caleb Tennis wrote: > >> historically we were much more bleeding edge with our stable KDE > >> versions, but if you've spent any significant time playing with 3.5.0o= r > >> 3.5.1, you would agree that they are terribly less stable than 3.4.3. > > > > Not here ! I've used both (successively) every day > > & can't recall a single crash or noteworthy (indeed any) problem. > > It's true that I don't use Kmail & similar exchange-type apps > > & some comments suggest that is where the bulk of instability lies. > > > > The fact that KDE itself is no longer accepting bugs for 3.4.3 > > really does suggest there's something wrong with Gentoo's current > > criteria. > > > As a user I have to add my opinion here. I have been using Gentoo for som= e > years now and it was always fairly up to date. Currently KDE is really > behind on the current situation upstream. > And then I wonder why. What makes us think we can not trust the KDE devs? > Does compiling KDE introduce so many bugs? I mean, let's be serious, all > other distributions have a stable 3.5.x now. Don't they experience all > those horrible bugs? > Seriously, this is really becoming an issue. As I pointed out in a bug I > filed for a stable KDE (for which I apologize, I should have looked here > first), some people are leaving Gentoo because of this slow upgrade > process. > The classical answer from devs is "it's ready when it's ready". From a > user > point of view this is very, very vague. Please give users a more clear > explanation, this creates great frustration when looking at other > distributions. Because it's stable there. > > These are my 2 cents as a user. One that loves Gentoo. One that loves KDE= . > One that's frustrated by the current situation. I am a CS so I know how > hard programming can be, don't get me wrong there. I do appreciate what > you > guys do. But I can't understand why you do it this way right now. > > Bart > > -- > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Argument against Linux number 6,033: "...So this is like most Linux viruses. You have to download the virus yourself, become root, install it and then run it. Seems like a lot of work just to experience what you can get on Windows with a lot less trouble." ------=_Part_2109_28882540.1146745317312 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline All,

If I might weigh in at this late stage:

How did we end u= p here in the first place? Isn't the point of ~arch that we can put stuff h= ere that might WELL be unstable? Sure, we'll get lots of "I set my ACC= EPT_KEYWORDS to ~arch and now my system is broken," messages, but if p= eople are going to try ~arch, or Gentoo in general, despite warnings that i= t's "not for newbies" (and I have personal experience of this), w= e can't really stop them without turning the community into a fascist state= , can we? Gentoo (like all projects) has a finite amount of developers, and= if we spend to much time on ~arch then surely arch will suffer

Just my 0.2 cents (sic)

Jeff.

On 04/05/06, Bart Braem <bart.braem@gmail.com> wrote:
(sorry if you rec= eive this mail twice, my subscription was not ok)

Philip Webb wrote:

> 060404 Caleb Tennis wrote:
>> historically we were mu= ch more bleeding edge with our stable KDE
>> versions, but if you'= ve spent any significant time playing with 3.5.0 or
>> 3.5.1, you = would agree that they are terribly less stable than=20 3.4.3.
>
> Not here ! I've used both (successively) every day> & can't recall a single crash or noteworthy (indeed any) problem= .
> It's true that I don't use Kmail & similar exchange-type apps
> & some comments suggest that is where the bulk of instability = lies.
>
> The fact that KDE itself is no longer accepting bugs = for 3.4.3
> really does suggest there's something wrong with Gentoo's= current
> criteria.
>
As a user I have to add my opinion here. I ha= ve been using Gentoo for some
years now and it was always fairly up to d= ate. Currently KDE is really
behind on the current situation upstream.
And then I wonder why. What makes us think we can not trust the KDE dev= s?
Does compiling KDE introduce so many bugs? I mean, let's be serious, = all
other distributions have a stable 3.5.x now. Don't they experience a= ll
those horrible bugs?
Seriously, this is really becoming an issue. As= I pointed out in a bug I
filed for a stable KDE (for which I apologize,= I should have looked here
first), some people are leaving Gentoo becaus= e of this slow upgrade
process.
The classical answer from devs is "it's ready when it'= s ready". From a user
point of view this is very, very vague. Pleas= e give users a more clear
explanation, this creates great frustration wh= en looking at other
distributions. Because it's stable there.

These are my 2 cents a= s a user. One that loves Gentoo. One that loves KDE.
One that's frustrat= ed by the current situation. I am a CS so I know how
hard programming ca= n be, don't get me wrong there. I do appreciate what you
guys do. But I can't understand why you do it this way right now.
Bart

--
gentoo-dev@gen= too.org mailing list



--
------------------------------------------------------
Argument a= gainst Linux number 6,033:

"...So this is like most Linux virus= es. You have to download the virus yourself, become root, install it and th= en run it. Seems like a lot of work just to experience what you can get on = Windows with a lot less trouble."
------=_Part_2109_28882540.1146745317312-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list