From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19FBB139085 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 06:00:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51CDA21C08D; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 06:00:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E090221C087 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 06:00:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-73-53-75-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.53.75.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: zlg) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 75B5B341375 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 06:00:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs due to retirement To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <4a185773-6144-69b8-a466-0e554732f12f@gentoo.org> <20170101181644.366769b2@abudhabi.paradoxon.rec> <37f7a2ac-6214-deaf-01a3-871cecca96b2@gentoo.org> <20170103120510.325206fa.mgorny@gentoo.org> From: Daniel Campbell Message-ID: <7a2010ad-185c-514a-c11f-7000b09e4ff5@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 22:00:26 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KT2Vr1dfmXTjK8idGw5kqUSQCGRVHg7hw" X-Archives-Salt: dc75a781-d5c9-488f-9337-8516699ddfd9 X-Archives-Hash: 43896ec17cd019da44e7127f7880af08 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --KT2Vr1dfmXTjK8idGw5kqUSQCGRVHg7hw Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="42FiqOIEcl5Dp4NFKOoCv0C6oBhaR2km5" From: Daniel Campbell To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <7a2010ad-185c-514a-c11f-7000b09e4ff5@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs due to retirement References: <4a185773-6144-69b8-a466-0e554732f12f@gentoo.org> <20170101181644.366769b2@abudhabi.paradoxon.rec> <37f7a2ac-6214-deaf-01a3-871cecca96b2@gentoo.org> <20170103120510.325206fa.mgorny@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --42FiqOIEcl5Dp4NFKOoCv0C6oBhaR2km5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/03/2017 06:31 AM, M. J. Everitt wrote: > On 03/01/17 11:05, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: >> On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 16:00:52 +0700 (+07) >> grozin@gentoo.org wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2017, Brian Evans wrote: >>>> IMO, this one should be given last-rites as upstream is dead and it >>>> heavily depends on wireless-tools and WEXT. =20 >>> I use it on 2 notebooks. It works fine, and is (from my point of view= ) the=20 >>> most convenient tool to control ethernet and wifi connections on a=20 >>> notebook. Why lastrite it when it works? >> This is the Gentoo Way=E2=84=A2. Having a working software is not a go= al. >> Gentoo focuses on the best bleeding edge experience and therefore >> highly relies on software packages that are under active development >> and require active maintenance. The packages in early stages of >> development are especially interesting since they can supply users >> and developers with variety of interesting bugs and unpredictable >> issues. >> > From your response I infer the following, please discuss: > 1) "working software is not a goal" .. so we can have a tree full of > broken and/or unstable packages. What is the point of any QA/CI system > if this is applicable? > 2) "require active maintainance" .. by whom exactly? Where are the floo= d > of keen developers bringing their bleeding edge code (with their > ludicrous packaging requirements and language demands) to Gentoo? > 3) "interesting bugs and unpredictable isssue" .. WTF? >=20 > Michal .. are you (once again...) High .. or is your email (once again)= > so soaked in sarcasm we can't tell any useful content from the complete= > drivel ... >=20 Maybe I'm weird but I thought it was funny... I'm in favor of keeping software around until it breaks. When there's a non-existent upstream and nobody's willing to take up the helm themselves, it's a clear indication that it's in danger of being treecleaned. In some cases that's good; some packages get left behind and never updated, CVEs get released, nobody cares about the package and it sits masked for a while. Those are the packages we should consider for treecleaning, not just "oh it's been 2 years since a release" or "upstream website troubles". On the latter count, does anyone attempt to reach upstream before suggesting we get rid of the package(s)? Is there not some forum we can use to reach users who may be interested in proxy-maintaining it? This discussion makes me wonder if we need (more) formal guidelines for treecleaning. I think we've got a few people who are eager to clean the tree -- and their goal is admirable -- but until we can get metrics on who's using what, it's hard to say how much damage removing a package will do for users. A thread on gentoo-user re: lastrites might not be a bad idea. Thanks for the laugh Micha=C5=82. :) --=20 Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 --42FiqOIEcl5Dp4NFKOoCv0C6oBhaR2km5-- --KT2Vr1dfmXTjK8idGw5kqUSQCGRVHg7hw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEgIn+0tMDW9PQWDLnASQOlFA54XAFAlhvMnoACgkQASQOlFA5 4XD9chAAsHcFkyFlN2nmTO+E0dn7tEeHO43tiz+QgwTQ1DGuIteywf0yjrUmfkIP qd3dEfJUOo0KyhWSk87dmoiuPcb4ffXFVd1TaxELfyb7frH+QbfiLJRvW+MqAu8y T9226HazhSNst1F3NlFO1CQ1Qz2rJvf6WDzhI1cz/8o2Vd5rLKQOsLxpCkjyYYd0 RHpx2NR4LpH9T83TS0EIwCCNVsDl6F4J3/83Ne1VvgQ44BnA3xHknFghtyiquWsw X5YhtY0jIXHsr+EasuhFmy6LFAcqDglOBEy/YzYdPnhQ6SjQuGMIU0u5giAZRBJb jaWyUsi+3aDszYs/B6MugYMdjVAWSmTlyvb88S/Wh3fL5FuyJSK0M7k0QVFftDe4 Y7+swLWPcB3LfS1reCJjgKDihDaSzv0IjaAMb1j75JYDCq2k+i310tA0aXGwcWR4 nShxJQAnSWsvibkwuQtcZGR9f4iRFl6tor8ZiW76gbjJEKl5aCxHYt6dii5m1zAQ xNTvkg+lJIU47RI54LbFa8GI/MjmqZRpfrRjPNOXUun8e71a0IiD/UET1lZ5CMEl SaqxnOpL3LAQbQpyXCNEZ4hYYLtq6ZwSP1PLlbIVCuiN3fHbNXQdouwn2WnN8II5 aoP4T1WdS1EUQmSdkkWzjylAQavWdHuolVIDqLoTDqOa8eoeJrU= =Yufb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KT2Vr1dfmXTjK8idGw5kqUSQCGRVHg7hw--