From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACAD11382C5 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 00:40:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 41638E0977; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 00:40:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADEC1E0922; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 00:40:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.231] (c80-216-57-193.bredband.comhem.se [80.216.57.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: klondike) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FF81335C2E; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 00:40:15 +0000 (UTC) To: Gentoo Development Cc: council@gentoo.org, Gentoo project list From: "Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondike)" Subject: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Social Contract, Council: please fix the mess you cause Message-ID: <788ee187-02c9-d52e-8716-a2b7746faeee@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 02:40:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cJ0Mm9XmChIqJ0RQv1tlgNbNbOnFuHoKs" X-Archives-Salt: 173b3d6f-073e-4f95-9492-9ae6ae7594f9 X-Archives-Hash: e3e98b78e61800b77f004ce297cc52d5 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --cJ0Mm9XmChIqJ0RQv1tlgNbNbOnFuHoKs Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4aPo8UMI37EnWkgaonMvE4TdNk6jcbN97" From: "Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondike)" Reply-To: Gentoo Development To: Gentoo Development Cc: council@gentoo.org, Gentoo project list Message-ID: <788ee187-02c9-d52e-8716-a2b7746faeee@gentoo.org> Subject: Gentoo Social Contract, Council: please fix the mess you cause --4aPo8UMI37EnWkgaonMvE4TdNk6jcbN97 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1CB49FF8CBB7338E200A0B8A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1CB49FF8CBB7338E200A0B8A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Gentoo Council, During the meeting you held on December (see the logs here: https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20171210.txt ), you voted for restricting the gentoo-dev mailing list. Although in said meeting somebody raised that such a change affected the Gentoo Social Contract as it referred users to provide comments on the gentoo-dev mailing list (see https://www.gentoo.org/get-started/philosophy/social-contract.html ) this was dismissed by one of your members (which has, in the past, called the Gentoo Social Contract "dead law") by saying that the right place to send such comments is gentoo-project (but willingly ignoring that such a reference has been part of it since the first archived draft version https://web.archive.org/web/20021112053724/http://www.gentoo.org:80/main/= en/contract.xml and the first non draft version https://web.archive.org/web/20031203222653/http://www.gentoo.org:80/main/= en/contract.xml which predate the gentoo-project mailing list) and apparently ignored by the rest. This was noted after the vote had happened and to the best of my knowledge hadn't been raised before. Despite that, on the next meeting where the topic was discussed a different council member stated that said person did not "any pertinent new information since last vote". Now, three months after, no action has been carried by the council on this very specific regard despite being made aware of it. This clearly shows that the current council members not only take hastened decissions without even doing propper research, they don't try to clean up the mess they cause after their own decissions. Given the inaction by the council, I'm propossing to apply either of these two changes to the Gentoo Social contract. First propossal: Replace "Comments are welcome. Please send them to our gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list." by "Comments by selected people are welcome. Please send them to our gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list.". Which clearly reflects the new ivory tower philosophy the Council is making the Gentoo Project take. Second propossal: Replace "Comments are welcome. Please send them to our gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list." by "Comments by selected people are welcome. Please send them to our gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list CCing the Gentoo Foundation trustees on trustees@lists.gentoo.org .". Which ensures trustees get a notification of such propossals and still keeps the social contract open to comments for anybody. Please note, in the spirit of the second propossal I'm CCing gentoo-proje= ct. Klondike --------------1CB49FF8CBB7338E200A0B8A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Gentoo Council,

During the meeting you held on December (see the logs here: https://projects.gentoo.org/counci= l/meeting-logs/20171210.txt ), you voted for restricting the gentoo-dev mailing list. Although in said meeting somebody raised that such a change affected the Gentoo Social Contract as it referred users to provide comments on the gentoo-dev mailing list (see https://www.gentoo.org/get-st= arted/philosophy/social-contract.html ) this was dismissed by one of your members (which has, in the past, called the Gentoo Social Contract "dead law") by saying that the right place to send such comments is gentoo-project (but willingly ignoring that such a reference has been part of it since the first archived draft version https://web.a= rchive.org/web/20021112053724/http://www.gentoo.org:80/main/en/contract.x= ml and the first non draft version https://web.a= rchive.org/web/20031203222653/http://www.gentoo.org:80/main/en/contract.x= ml which predate the gentoo-project mailing list) and apparently ignored by the rest.

This was noted after the vote had happened and to the best of my knowledge hadn't been raised before. Despite that, on the next meeting where the topic was discussed a different council member stated that said person did not "any pertinent new information since last vote".

Now, three months after, no action has been carried by the council on this very specific regard despite being made aware of it. This clearly shows that the current council members not only take hastened decissions without even doing propper research, they don't try to clean up the mess they cause after their own decissions.

Given the inaction by the council, I'm propossing to apply either of these two changes to the Gentoo Social contract.

First propossal:
Replace "Comments are welcome. Please send them to our gentoo-dev@lists.gent= oo.org mailing list." by "Comments by selected people are welcome. Please send them to our gen= too-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list.". Which clearly reflects the new ivory tower philosophy the Council is making the Gentoo Project take.

Second propossal:
Replace "Comments are welcome. Please send them to our gentoo-dev@lists.gent= oo.org mailing list." by "Comments by selected people are welcome. Please send them to our=C2=A0gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org mailing list CCing the Gentoo Foundation trustees on trustees@lists.gentoo.o= rg.". Which ensures trustees get a notification of such propossals and still keeps the social contract open to comments for anybody.

Please note, in the spirit of the second propossal I'm CCing gentoo-project.

Klondike

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