From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABD1D158041 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 12:26:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AD56FE2A7B; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 12:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-8faa.mail.infomaniak.ch (smtp-8faa.mail.infomaniak.ch [IPv6:2001:1600:4:17::8faa]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39AF5E2A6E for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 12:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-3-0001.mail.infomaniak.ch (smtp-3-0001.mail.infomaniak.ch [10.4.36.108]) by smtp-3-3000.mail.infomaniak.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4V8kWb4qgMz6Ps for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:26:35 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=koshie.fr; s=20231129; t=1712147195; bh=WFOJ2Davang3CjggOa93O8606nwaxieQW/qQPBIGA/s=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=RHYP20ewyx8+8h9oPD9d3sMhUalZgb9mLA/ocGu/6lvdQPSRa5XL53gkplBGAxsjz b3xE38kNLdHiEl2NUDkyVKlxYTIyr/3un1SDjAuKouLiav5ZLSjPHC/OwtVTkGQcDi rmpWVZqE2dbaKJGd9VB7nvBzdZi3IcNUAYV7IADuuH4SFNgvgZQRjTf7N5/eUKhLYW gqcrH+hHo3+aYfzr1yrx6PQlck9e449urPnzrRMXwDw0alpk/FaVfBT3oXvDd66kVu D1ldAbaHFDWlmC+B3zlY58XxNvPBPDB8sXQGimcLOJu5ewuAMbW3JE6jh28FV928XS /l6qKOAALFHzg== Received: from unknown by smtp-3-0001.mail.infomaniak.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4V8kWb0g6WzMpnPs for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:26:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <65b563f4-e932-491d-bb9a-f1931569adf1@koshie.fr> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:26:34 +0200 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Current unavoidable use of xz utils in Gentoo To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: Content-Language: fr, en-US From: =?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_GASPARD_DE_RENEFORT?= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Infomaniak-Routing: alpha X-Archives-Salt: 7b94eb6e-4773-4960-895f-718f73950aff X-Archives-Hash: 74e2e60b9be0029ccf8b95555d3b157e Sorry but I wanted to add something to what is written below: I'll insist as other did before: An other alternative would be to start your own overlay, push something to help Gentoo's dev, anything, because saying more or less "Do that because actually it's bad" is something rarely appreciated from peoples already giving their free time (as in free beer), for zero money at the end of the month for it, mostly. Here we only see someone that is 100% sure he's right, when responsible*S* peoples says he's not. At least, start something, share, propose by actions. Then they will listen you a bit further and taking you way more seriously, I'm pretty sure of that. Please, respect that. Sorry again for my English. > > Hello, > > After so much reading and seeing almost a dead-end to this talk and > from this citation above I had an idea for OP. > > 1/ OP is sure that Gentoo and others distro *should* avoid using > xz-utils, at all cost. > > (IMHO that is a respectable choice, *IF* it's possible without adding > tremendous of works while Gentoo's dev could works on something else… > Like being sure xz-utils is now safe to use…) > > 2/ Gentoo's dev stating that it's: > >     a) Non-required, to not say useless. > >     b) Would ask a lot of money to extend the infrastructure of Gentoo > (two times the compressed file and the new non-xz would take like +30% > in size…) and some works in addition for the systems administrators. > As someone that had this job for some years, that is not always easy > as it looks like and having more works is never fun while you already > have some cooking… specially when you are not paid for this. > >     c) Would ask a *LOT* of works for Gentoo's devs, ebuild mainteneurs… > >     d) For, from Gentoos's dev opinion, something that only a very few > users will actually use, without speaking about adding a layer of > complexity in every process, from installing Gentoo or maintaining the > packages. Looks like an awful jobs to be honest. > > If OP is really that sure that Gentoo's dev are having a cavalier > attitude, non-thinking enough about security in this subject, while > (sorry but that's true) not paying much respect to the works into the > community (Gentoo and free software in general)… Well: > > Fork Gentoo, or any other distros, start a LFS… > > I mean, this is *free software* (as in freedom), what makes you not > starting your own project with peoples sharing your point-of-view ? > > Some debian's user didn't liked the coming of SystemD, some made > Devian (not even know if it's still around, but that is a simple > example). Don't some *BSD distribution were borne for technical > different point-of-view ? Yes, some did and are still here, since > decades. > > I think, IMHO, you should try to see if peoples around are having the > same philosophy as you, if you find a bunch of peoples having times > and willing to do it. > > I suppose you have some knowledge, but I can only assume, maybe you > don't have enough, could take years even if you have already these. > Even more if you start from 0. > > If you are alone, you have two choices: > > 1/ Do like Slackware, create as a lone-wolf your own distribution. > > 2/ Accept the idea that your idea is maybe not true, or good. > > When a lot of peoples state that you are wrong, it doesn't means you > are all the time. But at the same time, you were explained more than > once that it's not a good idea, a really better way or they (Gentoo's > dev) have other matter to take care of. Maybe Gentoo's dev are wrong. > But in my case, I'll keep my side for the peoples that has proven > theirs skills by their works. For more than 20 years, now. > > That is just my opinion. You don't like it ? Fork it, find an > alternative OR accept your faith. Or change for a distribution sharing > your opinion about that. > > PS : Sorry for my English. > > Regards, > GASPARD DE RENEFORT Kévin > >