[gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Michał Górny]

Hi,

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

c. ASAP: stabilize Python 3.9 interpreter + start working towards
unmasking python3_9 flag on stable

d. 2022-06-01: switch the default to py3.10

In other news, there's a good chance that PyPy3 will catch up to 3.9
before we remove 3.8.

WDYT?


[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Python/Implementations#Implementation_support_timeline

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Patrick McLean]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> the implementation timeline [1].
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
> days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> 
> Hence my proposal would be to:
> 
> a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> 
> b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

> c. ASAP: stabilize Python 3.9 interpreter + start working towards
> unmasking python3_9 flag on stable
> 
> d. 2022-06-01: switch the default to py3.10
> 
> In other news, there's a good chance that PyPy3 will catch up to 3.9
> before we remove 3.8.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Wolfgang E. Sanyer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 855 bytes --]

El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org>
escribió:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> > the implementation timeline [1].
> >
> > Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
> > days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> > in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> >
> > Hence my proposal would be to:
> >
> > a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> >
> > b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
>
> Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
> possible.
>

Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely
personal preference?

>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1504 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[David Seifert]

On Thu, 2021-11-11 at 09:55 -0800, Patrick McLean wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> > the implementation timeline [1].
> > 
> > Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle
> > these
> > days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> > in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> > 
> > Hence my proposal would be to:
> > 
> > a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> > 
> > b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
> 
> Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
> possible.

Are you going to help maintain the python interpreter? And fix tests for
old python targets?

[gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Luca Barbato]

On 11/11/21 17:05, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> the implementation timeline [1].
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
> days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> 
> Hence my proposal would be to:
> 
> a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> 
> b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
> 
> c. ASAP: stabilize Python 3.9 interpreter + start working towards
> unmasking python3_9 flag on stable
> 
> d. 2022-06-01: switch the default to py3.10
> 
> In other news, there's a good chance that PyPy3 will catch up to 3.9
> before we remove 3.8.
> 
> WDYT?

If the interpreters we support are aligned to 3.9 by the time python 3.8
is EOL, it is fine.

Maybe could be good to add tags to git when we do this so people have an
easy way to update from older setups.

lu

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Patrick McLean]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 19:01:14 +0100
David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-11-11 at 09:55 -0800, Patrick McLean wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
> > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> > > the implementation timeline [1].
> > > 
> > > Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle
> > > these
> > > days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> > > in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> > > 
> > > Hence my proposal would be to:
> > > 
> > > a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> > > 
> > > b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
> > 
> > Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
> > possible.
> 
> Are you going to help maintain the python interpreter? And fix tests for
> old python targets?
> 
If that is what is required.
I am not asking to keep around 3.8 python targets for upstream that
drop support, only keep it around for a bit longer for the upstreams
that continue to support it. Upstream python isn't dropping support for
3.8 until 2024.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Patrick McLean]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500
"Wolfgang E. Sanyer" <wolfgangesanyer@gmail.com> wrote:

> El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org>
> escribió:
> 
> > On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
> > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:  
> > > I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> > > the implementation timeline [1].
> > >
> > > Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
> > > days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> > > in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> > >
> > > Hence my proposal would be to:
> > >
> > > a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> > >
> > > b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target  
> >
> > Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
> > possible.
> >  
> 
> Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely
> personal preference?
> 
Professional preference? My employer (which employs several Gentoo
developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more
time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Patrick McLean]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:55:48 -0800
Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> > the implementation timeline [1].
> > 
> > Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
> > days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> > in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> > 
> > Hence my proposal would be to:
> > 
> > a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> > 
> > b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target  
> 
> Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
> possible.
To clarify, I am just asking for it to be pushed back to the start of
2023, not June 2023. 2023-01-01 would be fine.

> > c. ASAP: stabilize Python 3.9 interpreter + start working towards
> > unmasking python3_9 flag on stable
> > 
> > d. 2022-06-01: switch the default to py3.10
> > 
> > In other news, there's a good chance that PyPy3 will catch up to 3.9
> > before we remove 3.8.  
> 

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Wolfgang E. Sanyer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1449 bytes --]

El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 1:40 p. m., Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org>
escribió:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500
> "Wolfgang E. Sanyer" <wolfgangesanyer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <
> chutzpah@gentoo.org>
> > escribió:
> >
> > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
> > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
> > > > the implementation timeline [1].
> > > >
> > > > Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle
> these
> > > > days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
> > > > in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
> > > >
> > > > Hence my proposal would be to:
> > > >
> > > > a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
> > > >
> > > > b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
> > >
> > > Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
> > > possible.
> > >
> >
> > Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely
> > personal preference?
> >
> Professional preference?


Sounds like a good reason to me ☺️

This wasn't clear from your initial message though.

My employer (which employs several Gentoo
> developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more
> time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2512 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Sam James]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2065 bytes --]

> 
> 
> On 11 Nov 2021, at 18:40, Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500
> "Wolfgang E. Sanyer" <wolfgangesanyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org>
>> escribió:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
>>> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>> I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
>>>> the implementation timeline [1].
>>>> 
>>>> Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
>>>> days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
>>>> in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
>>>> 
>>>> Hence my proposal would be to:
>>>> 
>>>> a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
>>>> 
>>>> b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
>>> 
>>> Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
>>> possible.
>>> 
>> 
>> Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely
>> personal preference?
>> 
> Professional preference? My employer (which employs several Gentoo
> developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more
> time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.
> 
> 

I think this is fair but if you do need something for work, please say that
so we don't need to guess / think it might be for your personal capacity.

I also think it's probably worthwhile to offer upfront help if needed if you
can.

That said, I agree!

I think we need to push it back a little bit to ease upgrades (see
the recent thread) but also to help downstreams like Flatcar OS
which are still migrating away from Python 3.8.

I don't mind chipping in to help.

[There is a separate issue with stabilising the Python 3.10
interpreter. I'd like this done as soon as it's ready (and it works
fine here), but there's a problem with circular dependencies
and python-any-r1 dragging it in on upgrades and causing issues with libxcrypt.]

Best,
sam

[-- Attachment #2: Message signed with OpenPGP --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 618 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Proposed dates for Python 3.10 switch and Python 3.8 removal

[Sam James]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1841 bytes --]


[Resending due to mail client nonsense...]

> On 11 Nov 2021, at 18:44, Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:55:48 -0800
> Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org <mailto:chutzpah@gentoo.org>> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
>> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
>>> the implementation timeline [1].
>>> 
>>> Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
>>> days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
>>> in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.
>>> 
>>> Hence my proposal would be to:
>>> 
>>> a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail
>>> 
>>> b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target
>> 
>> Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
>> possible.
> To clarify, I am just asking for it to be pushed back to the start of
> 2023, not June 2023. 2023-01-01 would be fine.


I think this is fair but if you do need something for work, please say that
so we don't need to guess / think it might be for your personal capacity.

I also think it's probably worthwhile to offer upfront help if needed if you
can, especially if it is for that purpose.

That said, I agree!

I think we need to push it back a little bit to ease upgrades (see
the recent thread) but also to help downstreams like Flatcar OS
which are still migrating away from Python 3.8.

I don't mind chipping in to help.

[There is a separate issue with stabilising the Python 3.10
interpreter. I'd like this done as soon as it's ready (and it works
fine here), but there's a problem with circular dependencies
and python-any-r1 dragging it in on upgrades and causing issues with libxcrypt.]

Best,
sam

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6447 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Message signed with OpenPGP --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 618 bytes --]