From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947DA59CAF for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 22:20:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E30F721C040; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 22:20:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6D2221C008 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 22:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-73-53-75-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.53.75.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: zlg) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0472C340C20 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 22:20:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] usr merge To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <57067172.49cbca0a.693b1.ffff9909@mx.google.com> <20160407154636.GA26596@whubbs1.gaikai.biz> <5706A7A6.3080402@iee.org> <57070bbd.9a48620a.a07cf.3177@mx.google.com> <57070c95.0714320a.ed102.1995@mx.google.com> <57079677.9010900@gentoo.org> From: Daniel Campbell X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <57082EA8.6060505@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:20:24 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <57079677.9010900@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: ea387d4f-c0c3-4802-ae04-fe3704b7f6f6 X-Archives-Hash: 60debebd9de472aefdaa7f2586753cd6 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 04/08/2016 04:31 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote: > On 4/8/16 6:14 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:42 PM, William Hubbs >> wrote: >>> >>> There was a bypo here. "the ebuild" should be upstream. The >>> default installation location of all coreutils binaries is >>> /usr/bin, then we move everything around in the ebuild. We are >>> deviating from upstream in this example. >>> >> >> Keep in mind that following upstream and the /usr merge are >> somewhat orthogonal. You can just install those binaries in /usr >> without merging everything over. >> >> The only issue is that without the merge anybody embedding a path >> to these binaries would have to fix their packages. Presumably >> to aid the transition a symlink (at the file level) would be >> needed for some period of time. >> > > > @anyone, can you list the reasons we're doing this (I'm sure > there's more than one). If systemd if one of them, then I'm > confused because debian has switched to systemd and yet has not > merged usr. > Based on what I've read here in the thread, merging /bin and /sbin into /usr/{sbin,bin} is a matter of convenience by putting most of the static parts of a running system into a single path. As mentioned by some people, however, that's not enough to make deployment across multiple machines super simple. The distros that focus on that aren't rolling release like we are, and thus don't face the same difficulties that we do. In addition, Gentoo supports a broad number of choices for users and some are advocating for an option. At a higher level, I'm not really sure why we're discussing it. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see an actual problem that someone was having mentioned anywhere. The /usr merge seems to me as a partial "solution" for a different type of environment; one that, arguably, is better suited for a distro that's designed for such deployments. I personally think sharing /usr over a network and deploying it to multiple machines could be a recipe for disaster. It seems like a business case scenario that would involve multiple other system changes. It sounds like a great case for adding another profile or something rather than changing things tree-wide. Maybe it's a case for making profiles more powerful and flexible. Regardless, I'd hate to see choice diminished here for the sake of a single set of rather narrow use-cases. Just my 2ยข. - -- Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJXCC6jAAoJEAEkDpRQOeFwD+kP/j1EYtnbgh/s4i4lTn14vuoY Fj57eCsCBLNbHlEEGesLEU3EEExtJgVeSC9emuI80/nynOM8dhqUUKjtoZwwBW5R 9P5QmMQdT+ScJHPQ6CL5IKh9UeAF4IgDbrJI9rdHnrRLtlE40xWDRp8NcB5fPAc2 EfLMFRZs3HpJpVMirIVIMTHEckDlMRmYzO9aqKCnmSCx3M/nKR/SWSSQ94Acet9C DPN6nLH42vosJv1+syNUHGqf4DLn6xTREx7DEP8fBUJuQi/wDpHbbRn8PON3WkCo FkDqjxd3AhahUpa2LaD4t/sRmvs+tjIXfgFJ8iYzJwjRQKKZvSHRlQzUwQNnI6mS fkunumIhcJdeWCBXegaSxouAtaua7pk+AXDLx+2ZjhxDmv/BbmC6RSPWkHo3wsMl TVbZSB4IrDrp8l3kYd+baBEtZicNgoma4jak1MFn1COFWR2/ZqtGaOVDErW92aX2 jVQkTGTUGrFNx24ZPcvPB0OVNleoOfhh97O3EFjeOl0TnbAziGX9Z75HPegLFlLR 5dXewskG6iACR2FATlhhOgscfIVwE2LxEWw/N6lm0NbZHKTOObzP39fdu0CisAck pXtd1WBYX349Z0ympl9PCdLd68SobBROsFHKE6rwkSLkCBadzOCxgjpEGIQOPKHu qpXF8Z8y/Hssr4SAsxb0 =4UKO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----