From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C26B59CA3 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:31:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7790721C01F; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:31:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AD7D21C002 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.6.147] ([91.125.237.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MWORa-1aTVLn1Hsg-00XfGM for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 03:31:29 +0100 Message-ID: <56C13880.2070303@iee.org> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:31:28 +0000 From: "M. J. Everitt" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing order of default virtual/udev provider References: <56B978C3.2020304@gentoo.org> <56C099EE.8020401@gentoo.org> <20160214114131.62b2deb8.dolsen@gentoo.org> <20160214202326.GE7732@vapier.lan> <56C0E6BD.5010406@gentoo.org> <20160214204751.GH7732@vapier.lan> <56C0EA0F.20802@gentoo.org> <20160215021630.GL7732@vapier.lan> In-Reply-To: <20160215021630.GL7732@vapier.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 OpenPGP: id=93C22371 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ZtbnP5v8qhHz8uVSMEqgMaKIND5Y+vNXmeFLbR5cmLiFUN2pHnx 7ri+oKhtVL/jA7qks11Hb2Hg9TGGnRzaNMIRRlmLDc5VZwboX94Kj0v5v8AjvgBAIW5KZRG 05xBVb2WwkzSB+nvT/j4wxt056rVwLPeL4oWLCEskNIg2TUPYCotVkIts8Jw4dWUdHgMtB5 1eXjUeLwUbc4TZJztTC6w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:OajYRNHA6eo=:8l9thMYgeHP0wo8Lo48jXb +VQ1PqBGmzIM+NmAm36AnYaRkwq5A+yMTSteH926ktPvdoe/DovYadNfZKj/sfr0Q0WOGwQVk HVFslWcg/IrR1ZPe3jgEHH9IEtsp4gn2bLcR8titdfRVrpm22lqG3UyyWD+lC5JG5vFqoIfJW 7psAwm5rOlwOtDU6wX/1JB95kv6v5iF/1PR+cdYNj4Vcu8IgN6HCUtUats2iH2sBoBGhWcx9r PvLlwnxZ8T14HB1NxZja2gD7+nxfM8lGV8cbbh51edV/d/0qaV9GBop8KYLUhKXgrmZIoOgd+ I5j6XSQ1SRXR6Wpx7fM9Qx/8B9Oq8muJTrHLQrkBxo+3km6/yltddzQeH/Cmre92UYScfyrek UOlNkD36gwD9F+D3sMCbqSuA75MLfiIxgclFsn7fkBQJLFZ0PxQVz1fsExWZBgeuIOm4JF2MW /hPs5Xh3hoolt2h8dNGkQHJtaVweLEKAf4LA5HfuhzyVHzOJjk/3C4XTwGQ5etVf4cglIAGBk RqU3PFMUVf6PbQBPpaydzb1XgLg6scjFawk/PUrX2NmhMt/2Y6OUcOt5ZY1zk4dz9D87aS5XN pW0MPGKM7PDJA+uYOoagFS1+tHJQlD/74e8EBGo/YRuunOUiC+pue1UadG0bYGxoeKQpyJryE bEtI5Igwg0mbIh5Mb9KBYKfuX+HIVCdFjfPc6RinMb1bJz7rvKP4gTMu5j1/XcFmumTaBppZF K/xGBIzU0ZABUJr4 X-Archives-Salt: 7ae853ec-0f19-4450-8f10-23baa4999a97 X-Archives-Hash: 9edbd63b6ceaf8644e77cc61266af8ed On 15/02/16 02:16, Mike Frysinger wrote: > On 14 Feb 2016 15:56, Anthony G. Basile wrote: >> On 2/14/16 3:47 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: >>> On 14 Feb 2016 15:42, Anthony G. Basile wrote: >>>> On 2/14/16 3:23 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: >>>>> eudev: no one of any relevance outside of Gentoo runs it. >>>> that's not true, nor is it the central criticism, imo. >>> can you list the projects that utilize eudev ? the repo doesn't >>> that i can see. it is the central criticism imo when correct >>> interaction with other projects is key. people rely on rules being >>> parsed & run correctly, as well as information provided by udev >>> matching what they are running/testing everyday. >> until patrick brought up the list of distros, i was only aware of >> alpine which is a musl based distro. then puppy and slack came >> forward. they build their entire system using eudev as the libudev >> provider. if there were issues, they would bring forward bug reports >> like any other project. >> >> so when you say "people rely on rules being parsed ..." i don't know >> why those user bases are dismissed. > i'm not dismissing them per-se. i'm being practical here: i think you > can agree that the combined developer base of alpine/puppy/slack(ware?) > is significantly smaller as compared to the distros using udev. > -mike by "udev" do you mean systemd (as they are losely one-and-the-same) or the unsupported udev-severed-from-systemd ... Of course there is no comparison between Anthony's work on eudev and the systemd 'crowd' it's just a non-question. I think people are confusing the fact that there IS no separate 'udev' .. it is the work of a gentoo maintainer to make it work without systemd. To this end, does it really matter that OpenRC users are reliant on a gentoo developer applying heavy patching of 'upstream' udev-for-systemd .. or another gentoo developer working on an alternative that's roughly API-compatible. The discussion is how you jump the inevitable shark, and perhaps by switching the default and having a bit of time ahead to deal with issues, is surely better than facing a large breakage ahead, when there remains an option to switch back to the current udev if there are problems with eudev. It also gives Anthony a chance to have a greater user-base to test and evaluate eudev so that improvements can be made in a timely fashion before udev-without-systemd becomes unavailable (for whatever set of reasons).