From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B21138454 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B81B3E084D; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:34:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1C38E080A for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:34:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:908:b30:55a0:96de:80ff:fe6b:ddcc] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:908:b30:55a0:96de:80ff:fe6b:ddcc]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: hasufell) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1410F340B54 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:34:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] USE="gui" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <55EFDDAD.9030502@gentoo.org> <55EFDEC7.1070403@gentoo.org> <55F00BFD.7050804@gentoo.org> <55F12159.3020506@gentoo.org> <55F1439E.1070002@gentoo.org> <55F1C8AB.40005@gentoo.org> <55F1CA38.3050302@gentoo.org> <55F298D0.7020702@gentoo.org> <55F3178F.8070104@gentoo.org> From: hasufell X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55F33ABC.4070509@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 22:34:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55F3178F.8070104@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: a8adb7a8-71e0-4a7c-9ab3-05b892ac491a X-Archives-Hash: 5bc8456c0bd70e3d26500c8626bf9289 On 09/11/2015 08:03 PM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote: > > So, IUSE="X" has generally been used for gui, but more technically > it's used to depend on and build against x11-libs/* packages. The > fact that this gives a GUI is practically a side-effect. When > wayland comes along, do these packages still build against > x11-libs/* to support wayland? > > I'm just wondering if we're jumping the gun a little bit on > IUSE="gui".. yes it'll be nice to have one flag that "just works" > for anyone not caring about the details, but it'll also mean > propagating a slew of REQUIRED_USE=" {X,wayland,gtk,qt4,qt5}? ( gui > )" entries and a lot of extra use-defaults which may or may not > cleanup the sub-profiles of desktop/ .... > > Also, I believe we need to have the conversation about the pros and > cons of IUSE=gui here before the council meeting, yes? > I already use IUSE=gui and will keep doing that. USE flags in gentoo are the best and the worst thing at the same time. They are also mostly the main reason people don't like gentoo, because USE flags are (for todays situation) pretty much not an appropriate pattern to reflect real-world configuration. To be more precise... USE flags are first-class citizens and there is only one layer of them. There's not configuration pattern/abstraction behind them. If you wonder what I am talking about, have a look at NixOS. The reason we lack proper declarative configuration is also the reason we had to introduce this ugliness called REQUIRED_USE. Instead of saying "gui.gtk" we say "REQUIRED_USE="gui? ( || ( gtk ... ) )". And it will get worse. I wonder when people start realizing that.