[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
"Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):

> vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
> 
>   Modified:             fcaps.eclass
>   Log:
>   clarify USE=filecaps intention #540430
> 
> Revision  Changes    Path
> 1.11                 eclass/fcaps.eclass

Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to update
the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way. This is an official
policy for any commits to the Gentoo repository [1] and a lack of
consistency in entries to the ChangeLog is confusing to our developers
and users.

[1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.html

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Alexis Ballier]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:48:27 +0100
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
> "Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> 
> > vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
> > 
> >   Modified:             fcaps.eclass
> >   Log:
> >   clarify USE=filecaps intention #540430
> > 
> > Revision  Changes    Path
> > 1.11                 eclass/fcaps.eclass
> 
> Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to update
> the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way. This is an
> official policy for any commits to the Gentoo repository [1] and a
> lack of consistency in entries to the ChangeLog is confusing to our
> developers and users.
> 
> [1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.html
> 

this policy is about packages; cvs log is *muuuuch* better than any
global changelog for eclasses: who will dig into a thousand changelog
entries to find what changed in fcaps.eclass ?

if you want changelogs in eclass/,  make it per-eclass, like it is
already per-package.


Alexis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Patrick Lauer]

On Thursday 19 February 2015 12:31:27 Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:48:27 +0100
> 
> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
> > 
> > "Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> > > vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
> > > 
> > >   Modified:             fcaps.eclass
> > >   Log:
> > >   clarify USE=filecaps intention #540430
> > > 
> > > Revision  Changes    Path
> > > 1.11                 eclass/fcaps.eclass
> > 
> > Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to update
> > the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way. This is an
> > official policy for any commits to the Gentoo repository [1] and a
> > lack of consistency in entries to the ChangeLog is confusing to our
> > developers and users.
> > 
> > [1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.
> > html
> this policy is about packages; cvs log is *muuuuch* better than any
> global changelog for eclasses: who will dig into a thousand changelog
> entries to find what changed in fcaps.eclass ?
> 
> if you want changelogs in eclass/,  make it per-eclass, like it is
> already per-package.
> 

We've had this discussion before ... so ...

if you want to change the rules, follow the usual path of bureaucracy. Civil 
disobedience does not apply here.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Alexis Ballier]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:34:28 +0800
Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Thursday 19 February 2015 12:31:27 Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:48:27 +0100
> > 
> > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
> > > 
> > > "Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> > > > vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
> > > > 
> > > >   Modified:             fcaps.eclass
> > > >   Log:
> > > >   clarify USE=filecaps intention #540430
> > > > 
> > > > Revision  Changes    Path
> > > > 1.11                 eclass/fcaps.eclass
> > > 
> > > Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to update
> > > the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way. This is an
> > > official policy for any commits to the Gentoo repository [1] and a
> > > lack of consistency in entries to the ChangeLog is confusing to
> > > our developers and users.
> > > 
> > > [1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.
> > > html
> > this policy is about packages; cvs log is *muuuuch* better than any
> > global changelog for eclasses: who will dig into a thousand
> > changelog entries to find what changed in fcaps.eclass ?
> > 
> > if you want changelogs in eclass/,  make it per-eclass, like it is
> > already per-package.
> > 
> 
> We've had this discussion before ... so ...


what i remember of it is someone adding a ChangeLog file to eclass/ and
sending an email to ask people to fill it. Mind sharing a link ?

I think I'll add ChangeLog to every category and ask people to fill it
whenever they make changes to a package in that category. This would
have the same level of usefulness as a ChangeLog in eclass/.

Alexis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Markos Chandras]

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Hash: SHA512

On 02/19/15 13:38, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:34:28 +0800 Patrick Lauer
> <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 19 February 2015 12:31:27 Alexis Ballier wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:48:27 +0100
>>> 
>>> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>> Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
>>>> 
>>>> "Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>>>>> vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
>>>>> 
>>>>> Modified:             fcaps.eclass Log: clarify
>>>>> USE=filecaps intention #540430
>>>>> 
>>>>> Revision  Changes    Path 1.11
>>>>> eclass/fcaps.eclass
>>>> 
>>>> Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to
>>>> update the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way.
>>>> This is an official policy for any commits to the Gentoo
>>>> repository [1] and a lack of consistency in entries to the
>>>> ChangeLog is confusing to our developers and users.
>>>> 
>>>> [1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.
>>>>
>>>> 
html
>>> this policy is about packages; cvs log is *muuuuch* better than
>>> any global changelog for eclasses: who will dig into a
>>> thousand changelog entries to find what changed in fcaps.eclass
>>> ?
>>> 
>>> if you want changelogs in eclass/,  make it per-eclass, like it
>>> is already per-package.
>>> 
>> 
>> We've had this discussion before ... so ...
> 
> 
> what i remember of it is someone adding a ChangeLog file to eclass/
> and sending an email to ask people to fill it. Mind sharing a link
> ?
> 
> I think I'll add ChangeLog to every category and ask people to fill
> it whenever they make changes to a package in that category. This
> would have the same level of usefulness as a ChangeLog in eclass/.
> 
> Alexis.
> 
We had the same discussion again in the past

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_51d268a7757fd90fbda77d373a2664f8.xml

and again

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/dev/262085

we can't keep having the same discussion.

The original changelog discussion is here

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c3436497e445eaf86deea087788882e5.xml

There were no objections so we started using it

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_72fafb93225c9f5559415356eb093f44.xml

Can we please bookmark them for future reference?

Do we really need to make every single bit of development a formal
policy? Do we really need to discuss every single bit of development
in the mailing lists? When did we stop being developers because it was
a fun thing to do and turned into a bunch of mean people pointing
fingers at each other?

- -- 
Regards,
Markos Chandras
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina]

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On 02/19/15 06:38, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:34:28 +0800
> Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 19 February 2015 12:31:27 Alexis Ballier wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:48:27 +0100
>>>
>>> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>> Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
>>>>> vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
>>>>>
>>>>>   Modified:             fcaps.eclass
>>>>>   Log:
>>>>>   clarify USE=filecaps intention #540430
>>>>>
>>>>> Revision  Changes    Path
>>>>> 1.11                 eclass/fcaps.eclass
>>>>
>>>> Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to update
>>>> the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way. This is an
>>>> official policy for any commits to the Gentoo repository [1] and a
>>>> lack of consistency in entries to the ChangeLog is confusing to
>>>> our developers and users.
>>>>
>>>> [1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.
>>>> html
>>> this policy is about packages; cvs log is *muuuuch* better than any
>>> global changelog for eclasses: who will dig into a thousand
>>> changelog entries to find what changed in fcaps.eclass ?

Noting in that policy limits it to packages.
>>>
>>> if you want changelogs in eclass/,  make it per-eclass, like it is
>>> already per-package.

Our current policy is to enforce updating existing Changelogs at the
lowest possible level.  That means if you really feel strongly about a
per-eclass Changelog that would be permissible per the policy.
>>>
>>
>> We've had this discussion before ... so ...
> 
> 
> what i remember of it is someone adding a ChangeLog file to eclass/ and
> sending an email to ask people to fill it. Mind sharing a link ?
> 
> I think I'll add ChangeLog to every category and ask people to fill it
> whenever they make changes to a package in that category. This would
> have the same level of usefulness as a ChangeLog in eclass/.

This kind of comment isn't productive, let's stick to being productive.

If you feel that the commit log is "good enough" then open a bug
assigned to QA to remove the existing Changelog.  If the existing
Changelog is removed then our policy would be that it doesn't need to be
updated anymore.  Not sure how many people would need to sign off on
that idea, but that would be the process.

Thanks,
Zero_Chaos


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Alexis Ballier]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:39:28 +0200
Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On 02/19/15 13:38, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:34:28 +0800 Patrick Lauer
> > <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Thursday 19 February 2015 12:31:27 Alexis Ballier wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:48:27 +0100
> >>> 
> >>> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>>> Dnia 2015-02-18, o godz. 16:11:53
> >>>> 
> >>>> "Mike Frysinger (vapier)" <vapier@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> >>>>> vapier      15/02/18 16:11:53
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Modified:             fcaps.eclass Log: clarify
> >>>>> USE=filecaps intention #540430
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Revision  Changes    Path 1.11
> >>>>> eclass/fcaps.eclass
> >>>> 
> >>>> Please commit the missing ChangeLog update and remember to
> >>>> update the ChangeLog after changing any eclass in any way.
> >>>> This is an official policy for any commits to the Gentoo
> >>>> repository [1] and a lack of consistency in entries to the
> >>>> ChangeLog is confusing to our developers and users.
> >>>> 
> >>>> [1]:http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/misc-files/changelog/index.
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> html
> >>> this policy is about packages; cvs log is *muuuuch* better than
> >>> any global changelog for eclasses: who will dig into a
> >>> thousand changelog entries to find what changed in fcaps.eclass
> >>> ?
> >>> 
> >>> if you want changelogs in eclass/,  make it per-eclass, like it
> >>> is already per-package.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> We've had this discussion before ... so ...
> > 
> > 
> > what i remember of it is someone adding a ChangeLog file to eclass/
> > and sending an email to ask people to fill it. Mind sharing a link
> > ?
> > 
> > I think I'll add ChangeLog to every category and ask people to fill
> > it whenever they make changes to a package in that category. This
> > would have the same level of usefulness as a ChangeLog in eclass/.
> > 
> > Alexis.
> > 
> We had the same discussion again in the past
> 
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_51d268a7757fd90fbda77d373a2664f8.xml
> 
> and again
> 
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/dev/262085
> 
> we can't keep having the same discussion.

Funny I didn't remember this one. Guess my opinion hasn't changed since
then.


> The original changelog discussion is here
> 
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c3436497e445eaf86deea087788882e5.xml
> 
> There were no objections so we started using it
> 
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_72fafb93225c9f5559415356eb093f44.xml
> 
> Can we please bookmark them for future reference?


From the first link above, I see a proposal and a few agreements.
Unless I missed something, there is no mention of making it a
policy, and even less a policy that should be blindly followed and
enforced without thinking about its usefulness.

From the very first link in your reply, I see a proposal to
auto-generate the ChangeLog and stop annoying people for filling it.
I understand from the fact that people really needing a ChangeLog there
haven't made it happen as either nobody needs a ChangeLog there, or
nobody cares enough.
However, we still continue to see people being picky and asking people
to fill ChangeLogs. How fun.

Alexis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Alexis Ballier]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:42:27 -0500
"Rick \"Zero_Chaos\" Farina" <zerochaos@gentoo.org> wrote:

[...]
> >> We've had this discussion before ... so ...
> > 
> > 
> > what i remember of it is someone adding a ChangeLog file to eclass/
> > and sending an email to ask people to fill it. Mind sharing a link ?
> > 
> > I think I'll add ChangeLog to every category and ask people to fill
> > it whenever they make changes to a package in that category. This
> > would have the same level of usefulness as a ChangeLog in eclass/.
> 
> This kind of comment isn't productive, let's stick to being
> productive.

That's because I haven't given the reasons: per-category changelogs
would give long-term tracking with bug references and credits for
package additions and removals.

> If you feel that the commit log is "good enough" then open a bug
> assigned to QA to remove the existing Changelog.  If the existing
> Changelog is removed then our policy would be that it doesn't need to
> be updated anymore.  Not sure how many people would need to sign off
> on that idea, but that would be the process.

Unless I missed something, QA is not the deciding power, council as a
last resort representation of the dev community is; I guess that's why
we're still having this conversation on gentoo-dev ml.

Alexis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Sergey Popov]

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20.02.2015 11:32, Alexis Ballier пишет:
> Unless I missed something, QA is not the deciding power, council as a
> last resort representation of the dev community is; I guess that's why
> we're still having this conversation on gentoo-dev ml.

But until you have decision from Council, overriding our decision - you
should stick to it as per our GLEP.

Moreover, this is not suddenly created bound to developers, that popped
out from nowhere. This is justification of our current policy that is
forgotten by some of the developers - no more, no less.

As said before - you can either provide other solution yourself or
appeal to Council.

-- 
Best regards, Sergey Popov
Gentoo developer
Gentoo Desktop Effects project lead
Gentoo Quality Assurance project lead
Gentoo Proxy maintainers project lead


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in eclass: fcaps.eclass

[Alexis Ballier]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:23:41 +0300
Sergey Popov <pinkbyte@gentoo.org> wrote:

> As said before - you can either provide other solution yourself or
> appeal to Council.

sadly, things I have no need for get at the bottom of my TODO list, if
at all, and usually never get done.