From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA1813877A for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:31:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22F3CE0B2A; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:31:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from qmta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.228]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C758E0AB4 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta17.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.89]) by qmta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FPWG1o0041vXlb85FSXcdM; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:31:36 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.13] ([50.190.84.14]) by omta17.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FSXc1o00f0JZ7Re3dSXcpc; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:31:36 +0000 Message-ID: <53A05141.7010307@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 10:31:29 -0400 From: Joshua Kinard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: crossdev and multilib interference References: <53208139.2040509@gentoo.org> <1660834.UE1ARX9orZ@vapier> <20140327084108.GA3654@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> <31757180.gTPZtqku3h@vapier> <20140330095348.GA18419@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> <539E03A9.3010109@gentoo.org> <539E0563.3080302@gentoo.org> <539EF323.7020208@gentoo.org> <1402944163.8309.2.camel@oswin.hackershack.net> <539F462E.6050905@gentoo.org> <20140616214257.096c93fc@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> <539F49C2.6090008@gentoo.org> <539F4DFA.7020706@gentoo.org> <539F5288.1000000@gentoo.org> <539F5AB5.7000006@gentoo.org> <539F6B3C.7030807@gentoo.org> <539F8000.5080804@gentoo.org> <539F9E41.9050505@gentoo.org> <539FA536.3010401@gentoo.org> <53A0392E.5060800@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <53A0392E.5060800@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1403015496; bh=DYEbr1zN/qwlhMiiQ5e8iurKsE6pq5TgyiXBkoZmR1k=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=FPVbTftOtNdi+s5tiiXCp8aA+vml1FsROfIE3bcDTWBHVMA+plQcoGtD5Wt1VYVK+ 6OEn/lPD+MhMe/C0LE7bDyvmvvSShCr53196M+9+R0rmrtETVn8GCrf4yOoeiKcDC1 54kAIwkFyOqx+yA/bGpErRfQ7/SXdlOfXTbN9GZhQhsmVNmTZrPZHQpceDuQY7ecdx UWltc1aawwuzIKlyWSIU6ULvE/z1N4F0RLnVeogFaqRhbz2oARJYgDuBwDOKUQcFrC q11j2t0StHpSOkf/ddcGrmKAWn8b15IXOLiUHjT0k7cSz5NAYPuo93IkN0lUZJsZVe QNcDFNPqU6plg== X-Archives-Salt: 0a200c8c-4923-4ffb-8133-f021d62b5dd8 X-Archives-Hash: 78982e7c684003d6947cfca63359da4e On 06/17/2014 08:48, hasufell wrote: > Joshua Kinard: >> >> Equally using the Council as a hammer all the time doesn't work in the >> long-term, either. > > This is exactly the case where the council has to step in to solve > global issues and those between projects (here it is embedded gentoo > project and multilib project). multilib needs a lot of things fixed. Everyone is pretty much aware that we don't have solid support for multilib, just enough hacks in place that it seems to JustWork(TM), for now. But I think this is a wider issue in a lot of GNU packages anyways, as the design mentality for many of them assumed binary distro installs w/ a single ABI selected. I am not convinced that a lot of the packages in the tree are being broken by crossdev, when they are probably making assumptions about the build environment that aren't multilib-safe. If that's the case, it's those build systems that need patching, not hard-masking crossdev. That all said, you still haven't put forth a really convincing argument that people can agree on. And if you can't convince normal devs, do you think you can convince council members? What if you're rebuffed at a council meeting on this issue? What do you do then? Not everything is a nail that the council needs to whack with a hammer. Sometimes, you need an impact driver, a blow torch, or a simple Robertson square-drive screwdriver. -- Joshua Kinard Gentoo/MIPS kumba@gentoo.org 4096R/D25D95E3 2011-03-28 "The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between." --Emperor Turhan, Centauri Republic