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Message-ID: <538F7F65.9000208@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 15:19:49 -0500
From: Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>
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To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: news item for upower
References: <538DED0F.8010709@gentoo.org>	<1401812396.19408.4.camel@oswin.hackershack.net>	<20140603185813.18588.qmail@stuge.se>	<538E26F6.2000801@gentoo.org>	<538E2EEB.1080309@gmail.com>	<CAGfcS_=gRarLoFg9iChi6AyOom6i4LnCQ9xeXbCaKV-XLujRTw@mail.gmail.com>	<pan$6076$dfd4ff62$d6e8cc50$47b40c47@cox.net>	<538F4828.3070701@gentoo.org> <CANSUr=KZfXpPZnzn8zNZO_x+1=jKSQoWyTGnwibR5N7pjGEN_w@mail.gmail.com>
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Ben Kohler wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org
> <mailto:ssuominen@gentoo.org>> wrote:
>
>
>     Wrong.   I'm always using the -t (--tree) flag with Portage and I
>     would
>     have seen upower being the culprit immediately,
>     and second command would have been `eix upower` to see available
>     versions, at which point I would have seen
>     upower-pm-utils, and figured it out.
>
>     - Samuli
>
> I'm glad this fire has mostly been put out, but I think you are making
> quite a leap here that normal users can "see upower-pm-utils, and
> figure it out".  You may be too close to this problem to understand
> just how confusing it is to everyone else. 
>
> No offense intended.
>
> -Ben

As a user, I have ran into blockers quite a few times.  I either end up
asking on -user or using the trial and error approach.  A lot of the
time, the trial and error approach fails and I still end up posting on
-user or find where someone else beat me to it.  It's rare with the
output that portage gives that I can figure out why something is
blocking.  Generally this is just a issue of a different version of the
same package being needed. 

Given that in this case it is a entirely different package that is
needed to resolve it, I certainly would have been posting on -user. 
Unless portage spelled it out that I needed to use a different package
all together, it would have never occurred to me. 

I might add, I been using Gentoo since 2003.  I'm not a dev for sure and
don't do scripting stuff so diggin in the ebuilds doesn't generally help
me much either. 

Just a users point of view. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ben Kohler wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CANSUr=KZfXpPZnzn8zNZO_x+1=jKSQoWyTGnwibR5N7pjGEN_w@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:24 AM,
            Samuli Suominen <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:ssuominen@gentoo.org" target="_blank">ssuominen@gentoo.org</a>&gt;</span>
            wrote:
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div class="">
                <br>
              </div>
              Wrong.   I'm always using the -t (--tree) flag with
              Portage and I would<br>
              have seen upower being the culprit immediately,<br>
              and second command would have been `eix upower` to see
              available<br>
              versions, at which point I would have seen<br>
              upower-pm-utils, and figured it out.<br>
              <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
                  - Samuli<br>
                  <br>
                </font></span></blockquote>
          </div>
          I'm glad this fire has mostly been put out, but I think you
          are making quite a leap here that normal users can "see
          upower-pm-utils, and figure it out".  You may be too close to
          this problem to understand just how confusing it is to
          everyone else. </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">No offense intended.</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">-Ben</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    As a user, I have ran into blockers quite a few times.  I either end
    up asking on -user or using the trial and error approach.  A lot of
    the time, the trial and error approach fails and I still end up
    posting on -user or find where someone else beat me to it.  It's
    rare with the output that portage gives that I can figure out why
    something is blocking.  Generally this is just a issue of a
    different version of the same package being needed.  <br>
    <br>
    Given that in this case it is a entirely different package that is
    needed to resolve it, I certainly would have been posting on -user. 
    Unless portage spelled it out that I needed to use a different
    package all together, it would have never occurred to me.  <br>
    <br>
    I might add, I been using Gentoo since 2003.  I'm not a dev for sure
    and don't do scripting stuff so diggin in the ebuilds doesn't
    generally help me much either.  <br>
    <br>
    Just a users point of view.  <br>
    <br>
    Dale<br>
    <br>
    :-)  :-)  <br>
    <br>
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