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[50.52.216.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id t9sm1522317yhg.18.2014.06.03.18.20.59 for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538E7473.3000505@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 21:20:51 -0400 From: Greg Woodbury <redwolfe@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: UPower upstream (git master) and 0.99 release -> No sys-power/pm-utils support anymore References: <5383A0E6.3020700@gentoo.org> <20140531024701.GB3828@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> <5389BA4C.8040106@gentoo.org> <2990845.EWIttsqmb4@andromeda> <538DB0C5.6070206@gentoo.org> <538E6086.1010701@gentoo.org> <20140604022431.49a453ea@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <20140604022431.49a453ea@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: f9bc2149-d3ac-4e4f-86af-7eed5bc6d085 X-Archives-Hash: 93b5aa3fc0fa94a196e4f55a096ebe8e On 06/03/2014 08:24 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 07:55:50 +0800 > Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote: [Lots of comments about upower updates and interactions between systemd and Open-rc...] I'm sorry, but it seems to me that this is *another* power grab by the "systemd Cabal." More and more a small group of developers are making non-well-thought-out changes to the Linux environment that have the effect of pushing systemd as the default model for init systems. First, they abrogated the FHS by putting boot necessary stuff in the /usr hierarchy (deliberately ignoring the FHS rationale and history) forcing many users to redo systems to not have separate /usr trees. Then, they "steal" a general kernel command line parameter (debug) that makes booting impossible in certain cases. (Linus had to put his foot down on that one.) And now, another useful process is forced to make workarounds for users so that they don't get switched to systemd willy-nilly. (Don't get me started on the GD linkage between Gnome and systemd!) As one of the uncredited makers of the SysV init system (I was a lowly consultant sysadmin during the Unix System IV roll out) I know more of the history than most. SysV init "punted" the hard problem of getting sequencing and dependency during startup to the more agile mind of a human because we didn't have the time to develop a general dependency solver for the boot sequence. (And someone who was supposed to document that need for examination in the SysV development cycle seems ti have neglected the item.) OpenRC does some logical and straight-forward extensions to the SysV paradigm and handles the problem well enough. SystemD goes for a total rewrite (and suffers second system syndrome) and seems to be masterminded by folks with Napoleonic ideation. Mind you, I am *not* anti-systemd. In many ways it is a good system that automates a lot of stuff that needed automation. I just have some strong disagreements with some of the choices its implementors and advocates have made in relation to other aspects of system management. I have thought that Linux and the FOSS movement was about user choice. Not a small band of folks deciding that "users" shouldn't be expected to know what their systems are doing under-the-hood and forcing that vision on everyone, whether they want it or not. I moved to Gentoo (from a long history with RedHat and then Fedora) because it seemed to me that the concept of maximum choice was a treasured and honored position. Recent events, however, seem to indicate that even here in Gentoo-land there is a power struggle occurring. As I'm getting to the stage of being a "senior citizen" I probably will not have to deal with the fallout of this struggle for too long, but it disheartens me to see it occurring.