From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6898E1381FA for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 20:25:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 70C9CE0A7F; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 20:24:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f49.google.com (mail-wg0-f49.google.com [74.125.82.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66EF0E0A64 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 20:24:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id m15so7266836wgh.8 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sNCIN/U6C2d/SrUMwJByOQiKCZz8kYgVfFwfxYFHLrw=; b=KFVN/wkUX4OUddo8HQgTm/tMsLyT/UhTo1oAToXCaolF47oPiZn3jpZ573mjgiFnzh 69DGHpRJ4HzsrfDeztcr60T7wnDn1FbONoBDzlfgCGZ3cJkvu5urJHU1FjGMCkdebzKE 4lyjJbG9cenaKwxc8lr+DVxxQVY91k5dEfLRjPR0qFhnuJ7sJdOiesbpx6DyYpz5wQQy hyzBGC7y1huapArBHKPrOjflfwtefVJGzX5/Vs+SUQCQID2h9LdWQB9uysJSZtB0X0WW ARtMzOz6vLPujzr5CkJAoyGt1ThwaUhjJdSHsqc3T+fYAiiisWmkNmaLp3JRtZAkdxon TRAw== X-Received: by 10.180.37.198 with SMTP id a6mr35730783wik.58.1401827097136; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.0.40] (196-215-51-239.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.215.51.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u10sm719578wjz.43.2014.06.03.13.24.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538E2EEB.1080309@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:24:11 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: news item for upower References: <538DED0F.8010709@gentoo.org> <1401812396.19408.4.camel@oswin.hackershack.net> <20140603185813.18588.qmail@stuge.se> <538E26F6.2000801@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <538E26F6.2000801@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 3b7bd6b0-fe13-4b14-948f-4bdcc1d09d95 X-Archives-Hash: 9b381f239748f629ae01c34129cf4a09 On 03/06/2014 21:50, Samuli Suominen wrote: > > On 03/06/14 21:58, Peter Stuge wrote: >> Steev Klimaszewski wrote: >>> Instead of belittling the users because they are wasting so much of >>> your time >> Causing a rougher transition than neccessary is a waste of users' time. >> >> I don't think that's awesome. >> >> >> //Peter >> > > I still don't understand how the news item helps anything, it's all > matter of running > one command, or two at most, `eix upower` after seeing blockers, seeing > 2 different > options, selecting which one to go with, emerging it > I'd say such handholding distracts real admins from the real news items > that actually > require paying attention :/ Yes, it *is* a simple matter of running one easy command. Portage does that for you with trivial ease. But portage doesn't tell you *which* is the one easy command. A news item does that. Please realise that groking Portage's output takes considerable skill, understanding and familiarity with the scene. It's much easier when you know what will be printed before you run it - perhaps you are in that position? I've been using Gentoo for 10 years and portage still baffles me more often than it should. I resort to reading the ebuild to figure it out. Funny thing is, portage has the same information available as I do so why doesn't it print more human-friendly output? At least we got past that "satisfied by no parents in slot" stuff and now we have cute carets that point to stuff like some compilers. The point is, human communication is vastly more powerful than machine communication in cases like these, and a news item fits the bill perfectly. There are still 1000s of users out there who haven't run across this upower stumble yet, a news item will help them a lot and will be very well accepted (aka Samuli gets brownie points from user for caring) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com