From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED0B1387B2 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:19:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 035FEE0D0B; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E94BE0D05 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:18:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [114.91.186.16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B415033D920 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:18:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <52DDBDBF.1020206@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:22:23 +0800 From: Patrick Lauer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: formally allow qa to suspend commit rights References: <20140119050224.GA7898@laptop.home> <20140120035446.063a31be@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <52DD2E2A.2020303@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52DD2E2A.2020303@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 2ef770a0-96b5-4e5b-987c-efa4754be0f3 X-Archives-Hash: 0d314f323966cec4f4fee42f51b11c98 On 01/20/2014 10:09 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On 01/20/14 15:59, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: >>> #gentoo-qa | @hwoarang: pretty sure diego had the powerzz to suspend >>> people >>> >>> Whether this has actually happened is something that is questionable; >> >> Not that this necessarily needs to make it into the GLEP, and I'm >> still on the fence regarding whether we really need to make this >> change at all, but things like access suspensions and other >> administrative/disciplinary procedures should be documented. I think >> whether this is a matter of public record or not is open to debate, >> but I don't like the fact that we can really say for sure when/if this >> has actually happened. > > > Speaking as someone who had this power in his day job, for QA to be able > to suspend accounts is a very bad idea indeed. It always ends badly. I > suspended 20+ accounts in my current job over the years and the number > of cases where it was the right thing to do is precisely 0. I've been in positions where such powers were not granted, it's worse. All you can do is send strongly-worded letters and undo, then wait for the same thing to be tried again, while telling damagement that this situation is not good. > > It was always a case of ill-advised action taken out of frustration, or > bypass the training step, or don't try hard enough to reach the > "infringer" and communicate like grown adults. Yup, I did all three. Some people need more direct clues, and since violence in the workplace is usually disallowed ... > Suspending an account is a very serious thing to undertake, the effects > on the suspended person are vast and this power should never lie with > the person who is feeling the pain. Instead, there are well established > channels to the body who can make the decision. If QA has a problem with > a dev for any reason whatsoever, then QA should make a well-thought out > case to that other body for decision. Anything else is madness and open > invitation for it to all go south. > It's a serious thing, so it should have some consequences. I'm mildly amused how everyone wants strong QA, but as soon as QA tries to actually *do* something it's bad, and overstepping their boundaries, and NIMBY. Yey, we're allowed to sometimes do revert games, if we're asking nicely ... and the only way to stop the revert game is for QA to stand down. We're allowed to send strongly-worded emails, but getting things baked into policy is too radical. And the biggest "flamewar" so far was about cosmetic issues. Y'know, if I get around to it I'll try to work towards making most of these warnings fatal, then you can't accidentally add such things. (And people not using repoman will have some extra fun!) Have fun, Patrick