From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01FCF1381F3 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:00:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D960E09FF; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:00:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18BA4E09F5 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:00:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.182.101.20] (85-76-106-192-nat.elisa-mobile.fi [85.76.106.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ssuominen) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CCE433EBBD for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:00:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <5203EA3B.2000309@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 21:58:03 +0300 From: Samuli Suominen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130802 Thunderbird/17.0.7 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Gnome Stabilization 3.6 or 3.8 References: <5202416C.5@gentoo.org> <1375881254.7753.41.camel@rook> <5202DD20.8050906@gentoo.org> <5203A880.1050306@gentoo.org> <5203B190.80306@gentoo.org> <20130808172340.7d2424af@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <5203C908.1000304@gentoo.org> <20130808185357.4208db83@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <5203DEA5.30004@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 192696ec-f46f-428a-83db-02b9e39a83eb X-Archives-Hash: 7cd88e5e40188ab1534423184d937136 On 08/08/13 21:23, Alon Bar-Lev wrote: > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Samuli Suominen wrote: >> On 08/08/13 20:57, Alon Bar-Lev wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >>>> >>>> Stability is about the quality of the ebuilds and the user experience >>>> in general. It is not a statement that all Gentoo developers think >>>> that the package is useful. Many would say that nobody should be >>>> using MySQL/MariaDB for production work, but that has nothing to do >>>> with its stability as a package either. >>> >>> >>> This is not entirely correct. >>> >>> If from now on, a bug with systemd of new version of a package blocks >>> that package stabilization, it means that all developers must support >>> systemd. So having systemd stable is a decision that should be made by >>> the entire community, and have huge overhead on us all. >> >> >> That's not really true with systemd when the unit files (and related) are in >> a format that they can be carried also by upstream and can be shared between >> distributions. They are comparable to logrotate or bash-completion files. >> >> You don't necessarily use distcc, ccache, clang, ... and yet you let people >> compile packages you maintain using them. >> You don't necessarily use uclibc, yet you allow users to compile the >> packages against it and expect them to file bugs if something is broken. >> You don't necessarily use selinux and yet support building against >> libselinux where possible. >> You don't necessarily use zsh as your shell and yet let zsh-completion files >> to be installed when requested. >> >> Yet any of the mentioned packages can be stabilized, what makes systemd so >> special that it can't follow the same rules as other packages? > > logrotate, autocompletion are not functional dependencies. > > uclibc - is not mainline, people who use it for embedded are aware the > it may be broken every bump. > > autocompletion, distcc, ccache etc... are optional components which > can be disabled, while having usable system until issue is resolved. > > selinux - if a package breaks selinux it will be reverted (if > maintainer care about his users) until resolution is found. > > as you may have unusable system if a bump does not support specific > stable init layout, you do expect rollback similar to libselinux > issue. init layout is not optional package nor optional feature, it > how the system operates. I guess that's why we call Gentoo a meta-distribution instead of distribution since we are not bound to one certain type of system operation like eg. Debian is or any other binary distribution is.