Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gnome Stabilization 3.6 or 3.8

[Daniel Campbell <lists@sporkbox.us>]

On 08/08/2013 01:21 AM, Duncan wrote:
> Alex Alexander posted on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:51:38 +0300 as excerpted:
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/07/2013 09:14 PM, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 14:45 +0200, Michael Weber wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gnome Herd decided to target stablilization of 3.8 [1] which
>>>>> requires systemd.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the reasons to stable 3.8 and not 3.6, a version w/o this
>>>>> restriction, enabling all non systemd users to profit from this
>>>>> eye-candy as well.
>>>>
>>>> To stabilize gnome-3.6, we would need [people willing to do it].
>>>> We do not have such people on the gnome team.
>>>>
>>> Seeing the noise in #gentoo from people getting whacked in the kidney
>>> by the systemd sidegrade ... that's a very optimistic decision.
>>>
>>> It'll cause lots of pain for users that suddenly can't start lvm
>>> properly and other nasty landmines
> 
>>> I hope you understand that some of us will be very rude and just
>>> suggest to unmerge gnome on all support requests as it now moves
>>> outside our support range ...
>>>
>> Although I understand your frustration, I don't see any other options
>> for the Gentoo gnome team. People who don't like this should take their
>> complaints upstream.
> 
> That reads to me like resigned acceptance.
> 
> Gentoo/gnome is simply working with what upstream gnome gives them, which 
> for gentoo/gnome users now means a choice between gnome with systemd and 
> if no systemd, no gnome either.  Upstream decision that gentoo/gnome is 
> dealing with too.
> 
> ...
> 
> [Those uninterested in gentoo/kde can stop reading here, as the rest of 
> the post is a complaint about that project not taking the same position.]
> 
> Gentoo/kde users would be so lucky!
> 
> As a gentoo/kde-er, I *WISH* the gentoo/kde team was as similarly willing 
> to continue support for the options kde upstream *ARE* still providing -- 
> kde4 with the semantic-desktop options turned off.  Yes, this does mean 
> doing without kdepim, but that has been the case for several versions, no 
> upstream change there for 4.11, at least not for kde's base packages as 
> necessary to run a kde desktop, yet gentoo carried support for building 
> kde without semantic-desktop in 4.10, and doesn't in 4.11.
> 
> Meanwhile, while the same build-time options that worked in 4.10 still 
> work in 4.11 (I know, as I put a lot of work into patching the ebuilds 
> here when gentoo/kde removed the options despite upstream continuing to 
> have them), the gentoo/kde project has decided to force the semantic-
> desktop option ON for gentooers even where upstream continues to provide 
> the option to turn it off!
> 
> 
> None-the-less, I do understand the problem of a gentoo project supporting 
> an option no devs on the project are actually interested in running.  
> Testing would be left to users, and quality would suffer a bit as a 
> result, but I know for a fact that there's users out there DOING that 
> testing, even with the additional cost of having to maintain ebuild 
> patches themselves to do it, because I'm one of them!  Further, I'm 
> running 4.11.49.9999 live-branch and was running the betas before the 
> branch from trunk, so there's at least one user actually doing that 
> testing early enough to catch a good share of that feature's problems 
> before they get anywhere close to ~arch, let alone stable.
> 
> Despite, or perhaps /because/ of, all the previous pain kde upstream has 
> caused its users with the 4.x bump (which unlike the 4.10/4.11 bump was 
> at LEAST a major version bump) and with kdepim's switch to akonadi 
> mid-4.x (which unfortunately was NOT a major version bump), this time 
> there's no indication of upstream kde changing semantic-desktop horses 
> mid-stream and mid-major-version and forcing it on like that; it's
> gentoo/kde that's doing it, pure and simple.
> 
> And I've already posted that regardless of what upstream kde or gentoo/kde 
> does, after all the trouble I went thru to rid my system of semantic-
> desktop earlier in the kde4 series, I'm not ABOUT to enable it again now, 
> yes indeed, even if that means I unmerge the kde desktop entirely and 
> switch to something else -- which after all I've already done for major 
> portions of kde, including switching kmail->claws-mail when kdepim 
> unfortunately jumped the shark mid-major-version.
> 
> 
> So as I said, gentoo/kde-ers would be so lucky, if the gentoo/kde project 
> took the same position gentoo/gnome's taking here, that they support what 
> upstream offers, that gentoo/gnome's only forcing systemd because 
> upstream gnome's forcing it.  Were that the case, semantic-desktop 
> wouldn't be forced by gentoo/kde in kde 4.11, where upstream still offers 
> the same options they did in 4.10, where gentoo/kde offered the option as 
> well.
> 
> Meanwhile, I guess I know what the kde-sunset users felt like now... 
> except in that case as well as the gentoo/gnome case but unlike this one, 
> upstream WAS dropping support, and the gentoo project was simply 
> following upstream...
> 

Wow, that really sucks. I'm not posting this to the ML since I have
nothing to offer to their discussion. All this mess with GNOME and KDE
makes me happy to run vanilla X with Fluxbox, though. :P Which options
have you considered, if Gentoo/KDE doesn't re-enable the option to
disable semantic desktop?

Regards,

Daniel