From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEBE1381F3 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:19:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4D16E0C75; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:19:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mahal.bihira.com (mahal.bihira.com [67.159.5.243]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE69AE0C70 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:19:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 231.70-40-225.netnet.net ([70.40.225.231]:49408 helo=[192.168.1.144]) by mahal.bihira.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1V7JZQ-0004tO-Gz for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:19:43 +0000 Message-ID: <52033876.9030802@sporkbox.us> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:19:34 -0500 From: Daniel Campbell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130706 Thunderbird/17.0.7 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Gnome Stabilization 3.6 or 3.8 References: <5202416C.5@gentoo.org> <1375888590.1870.6.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1375888590.1870.6.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - mahal.bihira.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sporkbox.us X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: mahal.bihira.com: authenticated_id: lists@sporkbox.us X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Archives-Salt: 40d78d1d-e9d6-4410-9f63-261c2c5bc882 X-Archives-Hash: 88e877065cf4ec845f21aa6afcb61485 On 08/07/2013 10:16 AM, Pacho Ramos wrote: > Also, I think we should stop spending a lot of time trying to keep it > working with openrc, we simply don't have resources to do that at the > moment (even Debian/Ubuntu people are stick with systemd-204 because > they don't have resources to keep logind working without systemd in > newer versions). Now, we are needing to put a lot of effort on trying to > provide unit files and provide systemd related fixes in the tree because > we haven't (in general) pay attention to systemd at all => I think we > should put more efforts on it than trying to work on hacks to prevent > systemd dependency. I agree that there's no point in hacking software that voluntarily ties itself to systemd to *not* be tied to it, but dependency on any single init system is a bad idea. There are multiple kernels, multiple libc's, multiple device management layers, multiple inits, etc. Preventing dependency on certain things is a good way to enforce software diversity. Granted, in systemd's case Gentoo's not the place to do it. It's the upstreams that should be convinced or told not to depend on a single init system. Forgive me if my interpretation is wrong; it just seemed to me that you were all for vertical integration (systemd dependency as a whole) and the systemd creep is one of the reasons I came to Gentoo. I'd hate to see developers abandoning their work on OpenRC or other Gentoo projects to embrace the Red Hat campaign.