[gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov]

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Hi, list!

Many times somebody post buildlogs — they're translated to user's native
language due to system's /etc/env.d/02locale.

What about adding "export LC_ALL=POSIX" (or, at least, LC_MESSAGES) to
/etc/portage/bashrc by default (out-of-the-box)? That'll 1) fix
buildlogs issue, 2) fix some python-related compilation breakages, like
in xen-tools-4.3.0, for example.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Alex Xu]

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On 27/07/13 08:09 AM, Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov wrote:
> Hi, list!
> 
> Many times somebody post buildlogs — they're translated to user's native
> language due to system's /etc/env.d/02locale.
> 
> What about adding "export LC_ALL=POSIX" (or, at least, LC_MESSAGES) to
> /etc/portage/bashrc by default (out-of-the-box)? That'll 1) fix
> buildlogs issue

This doesn't seem like a major problem. Most errors can be easily
deciphered, and if they can't, the user can be asked to run
"LC_MESSAGES=C emerge".

This also introduces a usability problem, in that a user's preference is
being overridden. Presumably the user knows that they want their system
in a particular language more than we do.

> 2) fix some python-related compilation breakages, like
> in xen-tools-4.3.0, for example.

This is just papering over the actual issue that needs to be fixed.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:09:20 +0400
"Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov" <mva@mva.name> wrote:

> What about adding "export LC_ALL=POSIX" (or, at least, LC_MESSAGES)
> [...]

We've been over this plenty of times in the past. Notably in March 2009,
July 2010 (about python specific build issues), April 2011, December
2011 and July 2012 on this mailing list alone, at a glance.


     jer

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov]

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Unfortunately, gentoo.org's archive seems to be broken/frozen, while it
is a bit hard to grep 3party archives to find already discussed topics :-/

27.07.2013 18:31, Jeroen Roovers пишет:
> We've been over this plenty of times in the past.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:36:26 +0400
"Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov" <mva@mva.name> wrote:

> Unfortunately, gentoo.org's archive seems to be broken/frozen, while
> it is a bit hard to grep 3party archives to find already discussed
> topics :-/

Please reply below the quoted text.

> 27.07.2013 18:31, Jeroen Roovers пишет:
> > We've been over this plenty of times in the past.

To summarise:

1) locale related ebuild problems should be fixed in the
   relevant ebuilds/eclasses, because:
2) globally forcing a locale to fix one ebuild will expose build issues
   in other ebuilds (there is no generic solution)
3) several people have been adamant that locale settings should not be
   forced upon Gentoo users.
4) use the translation service of your choice to find out what the
   (usually generic) messages mean.


     jer

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn]

Jeroen Roovers schrieb:
>> Unfortunately, gentoo.org's archive seems to be broken/frozen, while
>> it is a bit hard to grep 3party archives to find already discussed
>> topics :-/

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_0ea6864e30d3a4d5319694afc18162df.xml

>> 27.07.2013 18:31, Jeroen Roovers пишет:
>>> We've been over this plenty of times in the past.
> 
> To summarise:
> 
> 1) locale related ebuild problems should be fixed in the
>    relevant ebuilds/eclasses, because:
> 2) globally forcing a locale to fix one ebuild will expose build issues
>    in other ebuilds (there is no generic solution)
> 3) several people have been adamant that locale settings should not be
>    forced upon Gentoo users.
> 4) use the translation service of your choice to find out what the
>    (usually generic) messages mean.

Nobody seemed to be against setting LC_MESSAGES in make.conf.
I reported a bug now.
https://bugs.gentoo.org/478382


Best regards,
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn

[gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Ryan Hill]

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On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:08:39 +0200
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn <chithanh@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Jeroen Roovers schrieb:

> > To summarise:
> > 
> > 1) locale related ebuild problems should be fixed in the
> >    relevant ebuilds/eclasses, because:
> > 2) globally forcing a locale to fix one ebuild will expose build issues
> >    in other ebuilds (there is no generic solution)
> > 3) several people have been adamant that locale settings should not be
> >    forced upon Gentoo users.
> > 4) use the translation service of your choice to find out what the
> >    (usually generic) messages mean.
> 
> Nobody seemed to be against setting LC_MESSAGES in make.conf.
> I reported a bug now.
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/478382

I've been pretty vocal against this in the past so I just wanted to say I
have no problem setting a default in make.conf.


-- 
Ryan Hill                        psn: dirtyepic_sk
   gcc-porting/toolchain/wxwidgets @ gentoo.org

47C3 6D62 4864 0E49 8E9E  7F92 ED38 BD49 957A 8463

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Alex Xu]

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On 27/07/13 10:36 AM, Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov wrote:
> Unfortunately, gentoo.org's archive seems to be broken/frozen, while it
> is a bit hard to grep 3party archives to find already discussed topics :-/
> 
> 27.07.2013 18:31, Jeroen Roovers пишет:
>> We've been over this plenty of times in the past.
> 

http://search.gmane.org/?query=lc_all+lc_messages&group=gmane.linux.gentoo.devel&DEFAULTOP=or


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Am Samstag, 27. Juli 2013, 16:31:52 schrieb Jeroen Roovers:
> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:09:20 +0400
> 
> "Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov" <mva@mva.name> wrote:
> > What about adding "export LC_ALL=POSIX" (or, at least, LC_MESSAGES)
> > [...]
> 
> We've been over this plenty of times in the past. Notably in March 2009,
> July 2010 (about python specific build issues), April 2011, December
> 2011 and July 2012 on this mailing list alone, at a glance.
> 

Yep. Should probably go on the Council agenda sometime. 
(rolls eyes)

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] default bashrc value suggestion

[Alexis Ballier]

The only sane default is likely a POSIX UTF-8 locale, certainly not C;
some package will even fail with LC_ALL=C I think.