[gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:

Motivation
----------

The main motivation is to reduce the contents on the main website,
allowing for an easier makeover. Also, the Wiki exposes the contents and
an editing capability to more people, allowing for better collaboration.
Finally, this is an opportunity for projects to go through the contents
in their project spaces and update/remove outdated contents as well
Gentoo as a whole to remove orphaned projects.

Process
-------

- Infra: /proj/* in CVS becomes read-only
- Projects: Go through documents, updating them or marking them to be
  discarded
- Projects: Use a GuideXML-to-Wikisyntax conversion tool to create an
  initial wiki version of the document
- Projects: Enter URL mapping information into a form
- Infra: Redirect www.g.o/proj/* to the respective Wiki pages

Before doing this with every project, I'd like to do a field trial with
2-4 projects.

Timeframe
---------

The process should not take longer than 4 weeks.

Special pages and contents
--------------------------

herds.xml, repositories.xml, etc.:
As these are intended for other applications to use, these should go to
a new site, possibly api.gentoo.org, initially fed from a git repository.
This site should get backed by SSL.

Image resources:
These can be uploaded to the Wiki.

Other files and downloads:
Until proper project file hosting is implemented, again a simple
git-backed static site, possibly projects.gentoo.org.

Project main pages:
Using Semantic MediaWiki, we can represent all the semantic information
we had on the project pages, like members and subprojects, on the Wiki
as well.
(Do we need more information than we can currently express in the
guidexml markup or can any be removed?)

Project-created documentation:
Projects should consider moving documentation pages they created into
the main Wiki namespace, allowing users to improve the documents.

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Sun, 09 Jun 2013, Alex Legler wrote:

> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the
> Wiki:

Some questions:

- Do we need to update GLEP 39? It requires a project page in
  www.g.o/proj/en/ that is actively maintained.

- What is the namespace policy in the Wiki? IIUC, the project pages
  itself should go to [[Project:Myproject]] and any subpages should go
  to [[Project:Myproject/Whatever]]? But what are the rules for
  project documentation that should be editable by all users, i.e.
  project pages in the main namespace?

Ulrich

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 09.06.2013 17:44, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 09 Jun 2013, Alex Legler wrote:
> 
>> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the
>> Wiki:
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> - Do we need to update GLEP 39? It requires a project page in
>   www.g.o/proj/en/ that is actively maintained.
> 

Yes, obviously. Thanks for pointing that out.

> - What is the namespace policy in the Wiki? IIUC, the project pages
>   itself should go to [[Project:Myproject]] and any subpages should go
>   to [[Project:Myproject/Whatever]]? But what are the rules for
>   project documentation that should be editable by all users, i.e.
>   project pages in the main namespace?

As our current guideline [1] says: The title should be specific, short
and unambiguous. Other than that, no restrictions.

Alex

> 
> Ulrich
> 


[1] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Wiki:Guidelines
-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
> 

Last time I chatted with people about this, it was unclear how exactly 
translations would be handled on the wiki. 

Has that been discussed and resolved?

Cheers, 
A

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 09.06.2013 17:57, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> 
>> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
>>
> 
> Last time I chatted with people about this, it was unclear how exactly 
> translations would be handled on the wiki. 
> 
> Has that been discussed and resolved?

As there was no disagreeing feedback, I launched the system we had in
testing [1] today.

The current process is described in [2], but could see minor changes as
more and more translators went through it.

> 
> Cheers, 
> A
> 

[1] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Technology
[2] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Help:Translating

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:

Sounds like a great plan to me!

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Sergey Popov]

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09.06.2013 18:22, Alex Legler пишет:
> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
> 
> Motivation
> ----------
> 
> The main motivation is to reduce the contents on the main website,
> allowing for an easier makeover. Also, the Wiki exposes the contents and
> an editing capability to more people, allowing for better collaboration.
> Finally, this is an opportunity for projects to go through the contents
> in their project spaces and update/remove outdated contents as well
> Gentoo as a whole to remove orphaned projects.

Err, i do not want to say that wiki is not suite for this purpose, but
what's wrong with current situation? Is there something wrong with gorg?
Well, it is not always clear how to use some of it's features, but apart
of that, why we should migrate to wiki?

Just to clear orphaned project pages?

Why we can not just have official project pages, maintained as usual
through gorg and additional info in wiki(if it is needed, for example,
like we do on Gentoo Qt project page?


-- 
Best regards, Sergey Popov
Gentoo developer
Gentoo Desktop-effects project lead
Gentoo Qt project lead


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Diego Elio Pettenò]

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On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Sergey Popov <pinkbyte@gentoo.org> wrote:

>
> Err, i do not want to say that wiki is not suite for this purpose, but
> what's wrong with current situation? Is there something wrong with gorg?
>

Yes, there is something wrong with it... it's called 'gorg'.

Or to put it differently, I can see why Infra would like to kill it.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2013-06-10, o godz. 16:36:43
Sergey Popov <pinkbyte@gentoo.org> napisał(a):

> 09.06.2013 18:22, Alex Legler пишет:
> > I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
> > 
> > Motivation
> > ----------
> > 
> > The main motivation is to reduce the contents on the main website,
> > allowing for an easier makeover. Also, the Wiki exposes the contents and
> > an editing capability to more people, allowing for better collaboration.
> > Finally, this is an opportunity for projects to go through the contents
> > in their project spaces and update/remove outdated contents as well
> > Gentoo as a whole to remove orphaned projects.
> 
> Err, i do not want to say that wiki is not suite for this purpose, but
> what's wrong with current situation? Is there something wrong with gorg?
> Well, it is not always clear how to use some of it's features, but apart
> of that, why we should migrate to wiki?
> 
> Just to clear orphaned project pages?
> 
> Why we can not just have official project pages, maintained as usual
> through gorg and additional info in wiki(if it is needed, for example,
> like we do on Gentoo Qt project page?

Let's maybe start with the fact that the current website structure is
mostly a very big tree of random directories with completely random
data kept in CVS. I can see why I wouldn't want to touch it. And yes,
it's really easy to forget that you have a project page there and be
unable to find it...

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 10.06.2013 14:36, Sergey Popov wrote:
> 09.06.2013 18:22, Alex Legler пишет:
>> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
>>
>> Motivation
>> ----------
>>
>> The main motivation is to reduce the contents on the main website,
>> allowing for an easier makeover. Also, the Wiki exposes the contents and
>> an editing capability to more people, allowing for better collaboration.
>> Finally, this is an opportunity for projects to go through the contents
>> in their project spaces and update/remove outdated contents as well
>> Gentoo as a whole to remove orphaned projects.
> 
> Err, i do not want to say that wiki is not suite for this purpose, but
> what's wrong with current situation? Is there something wrong with gorg?

The software is unmaintained, and the website template is next to
unmaintainable. I could go on a bit more about this, but I think these
two points *alone* justify moving away from it.

> Well, it is not always clear how to use some of it's features, but apart
> of that, why we should migrate to wiki?
> 
> Just to clear orphaned project pages?

No, I described multiple points. Again:
 - Less contents on www.g.o -> we can much more easily relaunch it
 - Users can more easily contribute to project documentation
 - Update/purge project documentation
 - Remove orphaned projects

> 
> Why we can not just have official project pages, maintained as usual
> through gorg and additional info in wiki(if it is needed, for example,
> like we do on Gentoo Qt project page?
> 

In case it wasn't clear enough yet: This is step 1 of n to get rid of
gorg and GuideXML for the website (read: not main docs) aspects of Gentoo.
Running two project page venues increases maintenance instead of
lowering it. I intend to have less work after this change, not more.

Do you have any concerns beyond 'never change a running system'?

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Hans de Graaff]

On Mon, 2013-06-10 at 17:15 +0200, Alex Legler wrote:

> The software is unmaintained, and the website template is next to
> unmaintainable. I could go on a bit more about this, but I think these
> two points *alone* justify moving away from it.

I did have brief flurry of activity on gorg after last year's Prague
meeting, mostly an effort to move gorg into the now well-supported and
modern rack world: https://github.com/gentoo/gorg and specifically the
rack branch: https://github.com/gentoo/gorg/tree/rack

But more work is needed and time is hard to find. If people want to help
out feel free to let me know, but I don't think any work on gorg will
ultimately keep the website running on it. It may make infra's work a
bit easier while other solutions are being prepared.

Hans

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Ultrabug]

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On 10/06/2013 17:15, Alex Legler wrote:
> On 10.06.2013 14:36, Sergey Popov wrote:
>> 09.06.2013 18:22, Alex Legler пишет:
>>> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
>>>
>>> Motivation
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> The main motivation is to reduce the contents on the main website,
>>> allowing for an easier makeover. Also, the Wiki exposes the contents and
>>> an editing capability to more people, allowing for better collaboration.
>>> Finally, this is an opportunity for projects to go through the contents
>>> in their project spaces and update/remove outdated contents as well
>>> Gentoo as a whole to remove orphaned projects.
>> Err, i do not want to say that wiki is not suite for this purpose, but
>> what's wrong with current situation? Is there something wrong with gorg?
> The software is unmaintained, and the website template is next to
> unmaintainable. I could go on a bit more about this, but I think these
> two points *alone* justify moving away from it.
>
>> Well, it is not always clear how to use some of it's features, but apart
>> of that, why we should migrate to wiki?
>>
>> Just to clear orphaned project pages?
> No, I described multiple points. Again:
>   - Less contents on www.g.o -> we can much more easily relaunch it
>   - Users can more easily contribute to project documentation
>   - Update/purge project documentation
>   - Remove orphaned projects
>
>> Why we can not just have official project pages, maintained as usual
>> through gorg and additional info in wiki(if it is needed, for example,
>> like we do on Gentoo Qt project page?
>>
> In case it wasn't clear enough yet: This is step 1 of n to get rid of
> gorg and GuideXML for the website (read: not main docs) aspects of Gentoo.
> Running two project page venues increases maintenance instead of
> lowering it. I intend to have less work after this change, not more.
>
> Do you have any concerns beyond 'never change a running system'?
+1, totally agree.. It's 2013 duh..

-- 
Ultrabug
Gentoo / cluster


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Sergey Popov]

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10.06.2013 19:15, Alex Legler пишет:
> On 10.06.2013 14:36, Sergey Popov wrote:
>> 09.06.2013 18:22, Alex Legler пишет:
>>> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
>>>
>>> Motivation
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> The main motivation is to reduce the contents on the main website,
>>> allowing for an easier makeover. Also, the Wiki exposes the contents and
>>> an editing capability to more people, allowing for better collaboration.
>>> Finally, this is an opportunity for projects to go through the contents
>>> in their project spaces and update/remove outdated contents as well
>>> Gentoo as a whole to remove orphaned projects.
>>
>> Err, i do not want to say that wiki is not suite for this purpose, but
>> what's wrong with current situation? Is there something wrong with gorg?
> 
> The software is unmaintained, and the website template is next to
> unmaintainable. I could go on a bit more about this, but I think these
> two points *alone* justify moving away from it.
> 
>> Well, it is not always clear how to use some of it's features, but apart
>> of that, why we should migrate to wiki?
>>
>> Just to clear orphaned project pages?
> 
> No, I described multiple points. Again:
>  - Less contents on www.g.o -> we can much more easily relaunch it
>  - Users can more easily contribute to project documentation
>  - Update/purge project documentation
>  - Remove orphaned projects
> 

I did not know that gorg is not maintained. So yeah, in that case, i
understand your decision.

>>
>> Why we can not just have official project pages, maintained as usual
>> through gorg and additional info in wiki(if it is needed, for example,
>> like we do on Gentoo Qt project page?
>>
> 
> In case it wasn't clear enough yet: This is step 1 of n to get rid of
> gorg and GuideXML for the website (read: not main docs) aspects of Gentoo.
> Running two project page venues increases maintenance instead of
> lowering it. I intend to have less work after this change, not more.
> 
> Do you have any concerns beyond 'never change a running system'?
> 

For now - no, i am not. Thanks for clearing things for me.

-- 
Best regards, Sergey Popov
Gentoo developer
Gentoo Desktop Effects project lead
Gentoo Qt project lead


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Jason A. Donenfeld]

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
> - Projects: Use a GuideXML-to-Wikisyntax conversion tool to create an
>   initial wiki version of the document


What is the current status of such a tool?

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Sven Vermeulen]

"Jason A. Donenfeld" <zx2c4@gentoo.org> wrote:

>On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> - Projects: Use a GuideXML-to-Wikisyntax conversion tool to create an
>>   initial wiki version of the document
>
>
>What is the current status of such a tool?

It is a script (xslt) that can be used with xsltproc to convert large chunks into wiki style. It isn't perfect though thus still requires manual review, but it is doable.

I *think* I committed one to the repo a while ago. If not, I'll do so soon (I have one in my own repo just for this purpose).

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Theo Chatzimichos]

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On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:20:20 Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> "Jason A. Donenfeld" <zx2c4@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> - Projects: Use a GuideXML-to-Wikisyntax conversion tool to create an
> >> 
> >>   initial wiki version of the document
> >
> >What is the current status of such a tool?
> 
> It is a script (xslt) that can be used with xsltproc to convert large chunks
> into wiki style. It isn't perfect though thus still requires manual review,
> but it is doable.
> 
> I *think* I committed one to the repo a while ago. If not, I'll do so soon
> (I have one in my own repo just for this purpose).

How about an ebuild please?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 11.06.2013 13:05, Theo Chatzimichos wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:20:20 Sven Vermeulen wrote:
>> "Jason A. Donenfeld" <zx2c4@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>> - Projects: Use a GuideXML-to-Wikisyntax conversion tool to create an
>>>>
>>>>   initial wiki version of the document
>>>
>>> What is the current status of such a tool?
>>
>> It is a script (xslt) that can be used with xsltproc to convert large chunks
>> into wiki style. It isn't perfect though thus still requires manual review,
>> but it is doable.
>>
>> I *think* I committed one to the repo a while ago. If not, I'll do so soon
>> (I have one in my own repo just for this purpose).
> 
> How about an ebuild please?
> 

Optional. I intend to expose this as a web site/service.

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Sven Vermeulen]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 02:15:29PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
> On 11.06.2013 13:05, Theo Chatzimichos wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:20:20 Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> >> "Jason A. Donenfeld" <zx2c4@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>>> - Projects: Use a GuideXML-to-Wikisyntax conversion tool to create an
> >>>>
> >>>>   initial wiki version of the document
> >>>
> >>> What is the current status of such a tool?
> >>
> >> It is a script (xslt) that can be used with xsltproc to convert large chunks
> >> into wiki style. It isn't perfect though thus still requires manual review,
> >> but it is doable.
> >>
> >> I *think* I committed one to the repo a while ago. If not, I'll do so soon
> >> (I have one in my own repo just for this purpose).
> > 
> > How about an ebuild please?
> > 
> 
> Optional. I intend to expose this as a web site/service.

I've committed my draft XSL to the gentoo/xml/htdocs/xsl location, named
guidexml2wiki.xsl. It still requires some updates that I'll work on soon
(such as handling internal links) as I'll be using it more and more for the
guides on gentoo.org/doc/en to move to the wiki as well.

ProjectXML generates towards GuideXML, so should be usable chained.

But as mentioned, it's a draft, and if you don't like it I don't mind at all
;-)

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

PS An ebuild for a single stylesheet seems like overkill to me, but i've
been proven incorrect in the past...

[gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Robin H. Johnson]

From the infra perspective, I would like to add that I support this
move, I just have a few concerns on the conversion, one of which is
dealt with here.

> I've committed my draft XSL to the gentoo/xml/htdocs/xsl location, named
> guidexml2wiki.xsl. It still requires some updates that I'll work on soon
> (such as handling internal links) as I'll be using it more and more for the
> guides on gentoo.org/doc/en to move to the wiki as well.
> ProjectXML generates towards GuideXML, so should be usable chained.
It would be nice to move the foundation/ content to the Wiki as well I
think.

> PS An ebuild for a single stylesheet seems like overkill to me, but i've
> been proven incorrect in the past...
I think it would help a lot of the devs that are put off by the concept
of XML/XSLT. Just give them a little wrapper script to generate wiki
output.

One of my large concerns was how to handle some of the tag conversion.
We have a lot of custom tags, plus some interesting behavior in some
tags. 

Sven's XSL makes a very good start, but somebody needs to put in some
TLC for the following tags in conversion, and/or can we have it emit
something useful so we know when we hit a tag that's missing in the
XSLT.

Here's my list of tags found in proj/ that aren't in the XSLT so far:
(the "/>" is just because I collapsed the tag of any attributes, there probably
needs to be an audit of how the XSL handles attributes).

  179 <body/>
  145 <i/>
   74 <mail/> (optional attribute link)
   27 <dev/>
   25 <br/>
   18 <license/>
   15 <extrachapter/> (optional attribute position)
    9 <resource/> (attribute resource)
    7 <project/>
    7 <name/>
    7 <longname/>
    7 <longdescription/>
    7 <description/>
    6 <subproject/> (attribute ref)
    4 <goals/>
    2 <summary/>
    2 <requirements/>
    2 <recruitment/>
    2 <keyword/>
    2 <job/>
    2 <details/>
    2 <contact/>
    1 <var/>
    1 <subtitle/>
    1 <stmt/>
    1 <ident/>
    1 <extraproject/> (attribute name)
    1 <const/>

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 16.06.2013 02:28, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> From the infra perspective, I would like to add that I support this
> move, I just have a few concerns on the conversion, one of which is
> dealt with here.
> 
>> I've committed my draft XSL to the gentoo/xml/htdocs/xsl location, named
>> guidexml2wiki.xsl. It still requires some updates that I'll work on soon
>> (such as handling internal links) as I'll be using it more and more for the
>> guides on gentoo.org/doc/en to move to the wiki as well.
>> ProjectXML generates towards GuideXML, so should be usable chained.
> It would be nice to move the foundation/ content to the Wiki as well I
> think.
> 

Sure. It doesn't count as a project I guess, so you would move into
Foundation:.* ?

>> PS An ebuild for a single stylesheet seems like overkill to me, but i've
>> been proven incorrect in the past...
> I think it would help a lot of the devs that are put off by the concept
> of XML/XSLT. Just give them a little wrapper script to generate wiki
> output.
> 
> One of my large concerns was how to handle some of the tag conversion.
> We have a lot of custom tags, plus some interesting behavior in some
> tags. 
> 
> Sven's XSL makes a very good start, but somebody needs to put in some
> TLC for the following tags in conversion, and/or can we have it emit
> something useful so we know when we hit a tag that's missing in the
> XSLT.
> 
> Here's my list of tags found in proj/ that aren't in the XSLT so far:
> (the "/>" is just because I collapsed the tag of any attributes, there probably
> needs to be an audit of how the XSL handles attributes).
> 
>   179 <body/>

ignore, needed by guidexml

>   145 <i/>

<i>.*?</i> -> ''\1''

>    74 <mail/> (optional attribute link)

This functionality is replaced by the {{Mail}} template.
Usage:
* {{Mail|a3li}} -> <a href="mailto:a3li@gentoo.org">Alex Legler</a>
* {{Mail|a3li|foo}} -> <a href="mailto@a3li@gentoo.org">foo</a>
* {{Mail|a3li@g.o}} -> <a href="mailto:a3li@g.o">a3li@g.o</a>
* {{Mail|a3li@g.o|foo}} -> <a href="mailto:a3li@g.o">foo</a>

>    27 <dev/>

Project members will have to be recreated using the form.

>    25 <br/>

keep "<br />"

>    18 <license/>

Discard, everything is the same CC license, the old 2.x version allows
upgrade to the 3.0 we use.

>    15 <extrachapter/> (optional attribute position)

Discard, GuideXML specific.

>     9 <resource/> (attribute resource)

These resource things could just become a list:
  * foo
  * bar
  * baz

>     7 <project/>
>     7 <name/>
>     7 <longname/>
>     7 <longdescription/>
>     7 <description/>
>     6 <subproject/> (attribute ref)

Dump information, contents need to be recreated using the form as well.
Longdescription should 'just' be the first paragraph of the wiki page.

>     4 <goals/>
>     2 <summary/>
>     2 <requirements/>

Does anyone actually use the goals feature? imo, discard.

>     2 <recruitment/>
>     2 <keyword/>
>     2 <job/>
>     2 <details/>
>     2 <contact/>

Discard. I have moved staffing needs already.

>     1 <var/>
>     1 <subtitle/>
>     1 <stmt/>
>     1 <ident/>
>     1 <const/>
> 

We have proper syntax hilighting in the wiki. Discard?

>     1 <extraproject/> (attribute name)

Shouldn't these be proper projects?

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Sven Vermeulen]

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 03:54:47PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
> >> I've committed my draft XSL to the gentoo/xml/htdocs/xsl location, named
> >> guidexml2wiki.xsl. It still requires some updates that I'll work on soon
> >> (such as handling internal links) as I'll be using it more and more for the
> >> guides on gentoo.org/doc/en to move to the wiki as well.
> >> ProjectXML generates towards GuideXML, so should be usable chained.
> > It would be nice to move the foundation/ content to the Wiki as well I
> > think.

I did some additional work on the style (as well as making a small wrapper
script to simplify handling it). There are still some issues that I need to
sort out, but I hope I can do that the coming days.

I keep track of the stuff at [1], an example output can already be found at
[2]. 

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki 
[2] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki/test

It would appreciate some feedback - things that do not need to be covered
anymore or so (I know our wiki supports some stuff that shouldn't be
rendered anymore).

No promises, but everything I know can help ;)

btw, the tool actually converts GuideXML, so I'll be updating it later on to
support better moves of our documentation as well.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

[gentoo-dev] Re: [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Steven J. Long]

Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> I did some additional work on the style (as well as making a small wrapper
> script to simplify handling it). There are still some issues that I need to
> sort out, but I hope I can do that the coming days.
> 
> I keep track of the stuff at [1], an example output can already be found at
> [2]. 
> 
> [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki 
> [2] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki/test
> 
> It would appreciate some feedback - things that do not need to be covered
> anymore or so (I know our wiki supports some stuff that shouldn't be
> rendered anymore).
> 
> No promises, but everything I know can help ;)
> 
> btw, the tool actually converts GuideXML, so I'll be updating it later on to
> support better moves of our documentation as well.

Very nice work. The hardened test-conversion is very clean, and works well.

The sh makes me twitch though. typeset a=$foo # is easier as: a=$foo # as well
as being more portable. [ ] is part of POSIX sh (test is only still necessary
in autoconf due to its ill-advised usage of m4, afaic) and you don't quote a lot
of the parameter-expansions.

-- 
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)

Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Xu]

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(Delayed due to list servers being down)
On 08/07/13 06:48 PM, Alex Xu wrote:
> On 08/07/13 04:02 PM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 03:54:47PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
>> I keep track of the stuff at [1], an example output can already be found at
>> [2]. 
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki 
>> [2] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki/test
>>
>> It would appreciate some feedback - things that do not need to be covered
>> anymore or so (I know our wiki supports some stuff that shouldn't be
>> rendered anymore).
>>
> 
> 
> I don't really like the default MW table style here; it doesn't really
> look... Gentoo, if you will. I hacked around the CSS a bit and I'd say
> the new look works better. http://i.imgur.com/5eD7FGy.png
> 
> 
> Another styling-related concern, the post-<dev> text is:
> 
>  All developers can be reached by e-mail using '''nickname@gentoo.org''' .
> 
> It should be:
> 
>  All developers can be reached by e-mail using
> <code>nickname@gentoo.org</code>.
> 
> 
> Also, this output is not correct:
> 
>  ... join the mailing list at{{Mail|
> gentoo-hardened@lists.gentoo.org}}.
> 
> There is a new line after "Mail|". It should be:
> 
>  ... join the mailing list at {{Mail|gentoo-hardened@lists.gentoo.org}}.
> 
> 
> <c> should translate to <code>, not '''.
> 
> 
> <inherit> output, while a good start, is clearly incorrect. (Ctrl-F
> SELinux subproject resources)
> 
> 
> 
> Other than that, there don't seem to be any major issues. Excellent work!
> 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 10.07.2013 01:53, Alex Xu wrote:
> (Delayed due to list servers being down)
> On 08/07/13 06:48 PM, Alex Xu wrote:
>> On 08/07/13 04:02 PM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 03:54:47PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
>>> I keep track of the stuff at [1], an example output can already be found at
>>> [2]. 
>>>
>>> [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki 
>>> [2] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:SwifT/proj2wiki/test
>>>
>>> It would appreciate some feedback - things that do not need to be covered
>>> anymore or so (I know our wiki supports some stuff that shouldn't be
>>> rendered anymore).
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't really like the default MW table style here; it doesn't really
>> look... Gentoo, if you will. I hacked around the CSS a bit and I'd say
>> the new look works better. http://i.imgur.com/5eD7FGy.png
>>

Oh god no. The days of these tables are numbered.

Which brings me to...

- Developer list: Moves to the sidebar. Not sure how to render that.
Maybe in a comment and people remove that once they have added all the
members?

- Subproject list: Moves to the sidebar as well. Same treatment as for
the developer list.

>>
>> Another styling-related concern, the post-<dev> text is:
>>
>>  All developers can be reached by e-mail using '''nickname@gentoo.org''' .
>>
>> It should be:
>>
>>  All developers can be reached by e-mail using
>> <code>nickname@gentoo.org</code>.
>>

The line should just be removed altogether.

>>
>> Also, this output is not correct:
>>
>>  ... join the mailing list at{{Mail|
>> gentoo-hardened@lists.gentoo.org}}.
>>
>> There is a new line after "Mail|". It should be:
>>
>>  ... join the mailing list at {{Mail|gentoo-hardened@lists.gentoo.org}}.
>>
>>
>> <c> should translate to <code>, not '''.
>>
>>
>> <inherit> output, while a good start, is clearly incorrect. (Ctrl-F
>> SELinux subproject resources)
>>
>>
>>
>> Other than that, there don't seem to be any major issues. Excellent work!
>>
> 


-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Xu]

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On 09/07/13 08:29 PM, Alex Legler wrote:
> On 10.07.2013 01:53, Alex Xu wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't really like the default MW table style here; it doesn't really
>>> look... Gentoo, if you will. I hacked around the CSS a bit and I'd say
>>> the new look works better. http://i.imgur.com/5eD7FGy.png
>>>
> 
> Oh god no. The days of these tables are numbered.

Okay, maybe they're a little excessive, but I still think the color
scheme is a little inconsistent. (too much purple at the top of the
page, not enough in the actual content.)

> 
> Which brings me to...
> 
> - Developer list: Moves to the sidebar. Not sure how to render that.
> Maybe in a comment and people remove that once they have added all the
> members?
> 
> - Subproject list: Moves to the sidebar as well. Same treatment as for
> the developer list.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

> 
>>>
>>> Another styling-related concern, the post-<dev> text is:
>>>
>>>  All developers can be reached by e-mail using '''nickname@gentoo.org''' .
>>>
>>> It should be:
>>>
>>>  All developers can be reached by e-mail using
>>> <code>nickname@gentoo.org</code>.
>>>
> 
> The line should just be removed altogether.
> 
> 
On second thought, I agree. Maybe <dev> can be changed to show an Email
column with mailto: links?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Tom Wijsman]

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On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 20:45:16 -0400
Alex Xu <alex_y_xu@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On second thought, I agree. Maybe <dev> can be changed to show an
> Email column with mailto: links?

Please no, this is going to be more effective as a bait to spam than
that we would receive any useful mails on it; there is a better way:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/a3li

Which you can turn off if you want to (I'll probably turn it on later):

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/TomWij

The form still seems to miss a CAPTCHA though.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Michael Weber]

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Hash: SHA256

On 07/10/2013 08:58 AM, Tom Wijsman wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 20:45:16 -0400 Alex Xu <alex_y_xu@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> 
>> On second thought, I agree. Maybe <dev> can be changed to show
>> an Email column with mailto: links?
> 
> Please no, this is going to be more effective as a bait to spam
> than that we would receive any useful mails on it; there is a
> better way:
> 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/a3li

This replaces the old <dev> lists which mentioned a way to contact the
devs via mail. We should stick with this offer.
I don't want to see most of the devs unreachable to the public because
a) the forgot to activate this form, b) users don't get the
<uid>@gentoo.org schema.

And this stu^H^Himple form has no gpg-signing, (B)CC or other stuff.



- -- 
Michael Weber
Gentoo Developer
web: https://xmw.de/
mailto: Michael Weber <xmw@gentoo.org>
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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Tom Wijsman]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:10:55 +0200
Michael Weber <xmw@gentoo.org> wrote:

> >> On second thought, I agree. Maybe <dev> can be changed to show
> >> an Email column with mailto: links?
> > 
> > Please no, this is going to be more effective as a bait to spam
> > than that we would receive any useful mails on it; there is a
> > better way:
> > 
> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/a3li
> 
> This replaces the old <dev> lists which mentioned a way to contact the
> devs via mail. We should stick with this offer.
> I don't want to see most of the devs unreachable to the public because
> a) the forgot to activate this form, b) users don't get the
> <uid>@gentoo.org schema.
> 
> And this stu^H^Himple form has no gpg-signing, (B)CC or other stuff.

Makes sense, I have read context now; I'd vote to keep the old way,
unless some sane way is implemented to not double the amount of spam.

Example <a href="&#109;&#97;&#105;&#108;&#116;&#111;&#58;%74%65
%73%74%40%65%78%61%6D%70%6C%65%2E%63%6F%6D">Contact</a> links to
mailto:test@example.com. This works an any standard browser and keeps
most crawlers at bay; to be even more effective, mix &# and % syntax.

- -- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
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Re: [gentoo-dev] [1/3] Automatic *XML->Wiki wiki.gentoo.org

[Sven Vermeulen]

Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
>- Developer list: Moves to the sidebar. Not sure how to render that.
>Maybe in a comment and people remove that once they have added all the
>members?

Oh so the developer list and subproject list will be generated by mediawiki? Cool. I can just drop that (at the time of conversion the project sites themselves are still available to consult).

I'll update the stylesheet with the suggested style improvements this evening.

Wkr,
  Sven Vermeulen
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Robin H. Johnson]

> Special pages and contents
> --------------------------
> herds.xml, repositories.xml, etc.:
> As these are intended for other applications to use, these should go to
> a new site, possibly api.gentoo.org, initially fed from a git repository.
> This site should get backed by SSL.
Here's a partial list of the ones I know about:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/repositories.xml
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/maintainer-needed.xml
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors3.xml
Both of these are broken I think:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/perl/outdated-cpan-packages.xml
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/perl/outdated-cpan-packages-perl-experimental.xml

- Do you know of more?
- How can we better encourage these to move to an API site?
- Some of these are meant for human consumption, others are meant for
  tool consumption, should be differentiate?

> Image resources:
> These can be uploaded to the Wiki.
How can we ensure later that the media files don't get deleted?

> Other files and downloads:
> Until proper project file hosting is implemented, again a simple
> git-backed static site, possibly projects.gentoo.org.
Please don't put lots of binary files in Git.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Alex Legler]

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On 16.06.2013 03:21, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
>> Special pages and contents
>> --------------------------
>> herds.xml, repositories.xml, etc.:
>> As these are intended for other applications to use, these should go to
>> a new site, possibly api.gentoo.org, initially fed from a git repository.
>> This site should get backed by SSL.
> Here's a partial list of the ones I know about:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/repositories.xml
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/maintainer-needed.xml
> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors3.xml
> Both of these are broken I think:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/perl/outdated-cpan-packages.xml
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/perl/outdated-cpan-packages-perl-experimental.xml
> 
> - Do you know of more?

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/herds/herds.xml

> - How can we better encourage these to move to an API site?

Not sure what you mean with that.

> - Some of these are meant for human consumption, others are meant for
>   tool consumption, should be differentiate?

Human consumption -> qa-reports.g.o

> 
>> Image resources:
>> These can be uploaded to the Wiki.
> How can we ensure later that the media files don't get deleted?
> 

Deletion is restricted to administrators, mediawiki also keeps old
versions around in case someone reuploads a file.
To prevent even that, we can restrict editing certain assets to developers.

>> Other files and downloads:
>> Until proper project file hosting is implemented, again a simple
>> git-backed static site, possibly projects.gentoo.org.
> Please don't put lots of binary files in Git.
> 

How do we expose that site to developers then? Akin to the mirroring
system on d.g.o?

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 02:08:00PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
> On 16.06.2013 03:21, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> >> Special pages and contents
> >> --------------------------
> >> herds.xml, repositories.xml, etc.:
> >> As these are intended for other applications to use, these should go to
> >> a new site, possibly api.gentoo.org, initially fed from a git repository.
> >> This site should get backed by SSL.
> > Here's a partial list of the ones I know about:
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/repositories.xml
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/maintainer-needed.xml
> > http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors3.xml
> > Both of these are broken I think:
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/perl/outdated-cpan-packages.xml
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/perl/outdated-cpan-packages-perl-experimental.xml
> > 
> > - Do you know of more?
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/herds/herds.xml
> 
> > - How can we better encourage these to move to an API site?
> Not sure what you mean with that.
It needs to be really easy for any developer to throw up a new data
source w/ scripts onto the API site.

Even qa-reports is somewhat stalled, and doesn't have good visibility,
because it's not that easy for any dev to add something new to it.

> >> Image resources:
> >> These can be uploaded to the Wiki.
> > How can we ensure later that the media files don't get deleted?
> Deletion is restricted to administrators, mediawiki also keeps old
> versions around in case someone reuploads a file.
> To prevent even that, we can restrict editing certain assets to developers.
See my other comment about git-mediawiki maybe, that would satisfy my
needs, just having old versions of the images around as needed (not
admin-deletable).

> >> Other files and downloads:
> >> Until proper project file hosting is implemented, again a simple
> >> git-backed static site, possibly projects.gentoo.org.
> > Please don't put lots of binary files in Git.
> > 
> How do we expose that site to developers then? Akin to the mirroring
> system on d.g.o?
I need to dust off the project hosting proposal, because there are a lot
of files that need to move to it (like all the elections & PR
materials).

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Alex Legler]

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On 16.06.2013 21:44, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> […]
>>> - How can we better encourage these to move to an API site?
>> Not sure what you mean with that.
> It needs to be really easy for any developer to throw up a new data
> source w/ scripts onto the API site.
> 
> Even qa-reports is somewhat stalled, and doesn't have good visibility,
> because it's not that easy for any dev to add something new to it.
> 

Currently, it's files in CVS, soon to be files in a Git. That's at least
the same reachability as before. I think solving this problem is a
separate task.

>Image resources:
>>>> These can be uploaded to the Wiki.
>>> How can we ensure later that the media files don't get deleted?
>> Deletion is restricted to administrators, mediawiki also keeps old
>> versions around in case someone reuploads a file.
>> To prevent even that, we can restrict editing certain assets to developers.
> See my other comment about git-mediawiki maybe, that would satisfy my
> needs, just having old versions of the images around as needed (not
> admin-deletable).

Um, got a link for that extension?
I didn't clarify, the Wiki can be configured to keep a revision even if
someone deletes a file.

> 
>>>> Other files and downloads:
>>>> Until proper project file hosting is implemented, again a simple
>>>> git-backed static site, possibly projects.gentoo.org.
>>> Please don't put lots of binary files in Git.
>>>
>> How do we expose that site to developers then? Akin to the mirroring
>> system on d.g.o?
> I need to dust off the project hosting proposal, because there are a lot
> of files that need to move to it (like all the elections & PR
> materials).
> 

…or that.

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Alex Xu]

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On 16/06/13 03:44 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
>>>> Image resources:
>>>> > >> These can be uploaded to the Wiki.
>>> > > How can we ensure later that the media files don't get deleted?
>> > Deletion is restricted to administrators, mediawiki also keeps old
>> > versions around in case someone reuploads a file.
>> > To prevent even that, we can restrict editing certain assets to developers.
> See my other comment about git-mediawiki maybe, that would satisfy my
> needs, just having old versions of the images around as needed (not
> admin-deletable).
> 

With modern MediaWiki, it is impossible to permanently remove a page or
file without the system administrator (I mean SSH access, not MW sysop)
intentionally permitting it or deleting the file archive.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Image_administration#Undeleting_files
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Oversight
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:RevisionDelete


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 02:08:00PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
> > - Do you know of more?
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/herds/herds.xml
Another one:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/userinfo.xml
This one and herds are somewhat important, as we really need them to be
nicely visible on the website.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Markos Chandras]

On 16 June 2013 02:21, Robin H. Johnson <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Special pages and contents
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/maintainer-needed.xml

Since I am the one generating this one, I don't think it makes sense
to move it into a git repo as it
is. The script is actually pretty simple. The text from chapter 1 is
always the same
(ie cat header > maintainer-needed.xml) and then I generate the list
of packages using the
portageq --maintainer-email=maintainer-needed@gentoo.org -n output.
So, in theory other developers
never have to touch it unless they want to change the text of chapter
1. This rarely happens (I never
changed it since day 0). But if you want to put it on a git repo, I
need to rewrite it a bit because it is
not pretty as it is.

--
Regards,
Markos Chandras - Gentoo Linux Developer
http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang

Re: [gentoo-dev] [2&3]/3 API & files

[Alex Legler]

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On 22.06.2013 11:20, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On 16 June 2013 02:21, Robin H. Johnson <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> Special pages and contents
>> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/maintainer-needed.xml
> 
> Since I am the one generating this one, I don't think it makes sense
> to move it into a git repo as it
> is. The script is actually pretty simple. The text from chapter 1 is
> always the same
> (ie cat header > maintainer-needed.xml) and then I generate the list
> of packages using the
> portageq --maintainer-email=maintainer-needed@gentoo.org -n output.
> So, in theory other developers
> never have to touch it unless they want to change the text of chapter
> 1. This rarely happens (I never
> changed it since day 0). But if you want to put it on a git repo, I
> need to rewrite it a bit because it is
> not pretty as it is.

That sounds like a page to have on qa-reports.g.o.
When you're happy with the script quality, let infra know and we'll add
it there.

> 
> --
> Regards,
> Markos Chandras - Gentoo Linux Developer
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang
> 


-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

["Paweł Hajdan, Jr."]

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On 6/9/13 7:22 AM, Alex Legler wrote:
> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:

Alex, thanks for working on this! Some feedback:

1. How will the project pages be protected against "unwanted" edits? I
think it's valuable to have some official pages where you know only
Gentoo devs can edit them.

2. How will the staffing needs page be updated after dropping gorg?

3. How secure is the wiki? Do we have regular backups and security
updates procedures in place? I know you're member of the security team
and infra team is doing its job well, but I just wanted to check.
Dynamic web applications arguably have bigger attack surface than
effectively a bunch of static files only editable after you gain server
access.

Paweł



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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Tom Wijsman]

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On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:01:00 -0700
""Paweł Hajdan, Jr."" <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 6/9/13 7:22 AM, Alex Legler wrote:
> > I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to
> > the Wiki:
> 
> Alex, thanks for working on this! Some feedback:
> 
> 1. How will the project pages be protected against "unwanted" edits? I
> think it's valuable to have some official pages where you know only
> Gentoo devs can edit them.

Pages can be protected and limited by group using Page Protection.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Administrator%27s_Handbook/Page_Protection#Page_Protection_in_MediaWiki_1.5_and_later

Pages can be watched for changes using a Watchlist.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Watchlist

Watchlist notifications can be send by mail.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Email_notification

You could probably use a Procmail rule to filter whom you want to track.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Legler]

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On 16.06.2013 06:01, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> On 6/9/13 7:22 AM, Alex Legler wrote:
>> I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the Wiki:
> 
> Alex, thanks for working on this! Some feedback:
> 
> 1. How will the project pages be protected against "unwanted" edits? I
> think it's valuable to have some official pages where you know only
> Gentoo devs can edit them.

The Project: namespace is restricted to only allow users in the
developer group to edit.

> 
> 2. How will the staffing needs page be updated after dropping gorg?

You create a subpage for each staffing need, filling in information
using a form. Semantic magic aggregates these, and you'll get a template
to include for your project page to list the ones for your project
specifically.

> 
> 3. How secure is the wiki? Do we have regular backups and security
> updates procedures in place? I know you're member of the security team
> and infra team is doing its job well, but I just wanted to check.
> Dynamic web applications arguably have bigger attack surface than
> effectively a bunch of static files only editable after you gain server
> access.

It's part of the usual infra backup, and I follow upstream release
announcements and update accordingly.

> 
> Paweł
> 
> 


-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:53:16PM +0200, Alex Legler wrote:
> > 2. How will the staffing needs page be updated after dropping gorg?
> You create a subpage for each staffing need, filling in information
> using a form. Semantic magic aggregates these, and you'll get a template
> to include for your project page to list the ones for your project
> specifically.
This should probably also feed back to the qa-reports site.

> > 3. How secure is the wiki? Do we have regular backups and security
> > updates procedures in place? I know you're member of the security team
> > and infra team is doing its job well, but I just wanted to check.
> > Dynamic web applications arguably have bigger attack surface than
> > effectively a bunch of static files only editable after you gain server
> > access.
> It's part of the usual infra backup, and I follow upstream release
> announcements and update accordingly.
A somewhat crazy idea, but could the git-mediawiki extension be used to
create a downloadable archive of every revision as well?

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Kent Fredric]

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On 16 June 2013 16:01, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 6/9/13 7:22 AM, Alex Legler wrote:
> > I'd appreciate some input on below plan to move project pages to the
> Wiki:
>
> Alex, thanks for working on this! Some feedback:
>
> 1. How will the project pages be protected against "unwanted" edits? I
> think it's valuable to have some official pages where you know only
> Gentoo devs can edit them.
>
> 2. How will the staffing needs page be updated after dropping gorg?
>
> 3. How secure is the wiki? Do we have regular backups and security
> updates procedures in place? I know you're member of the security team
> and infra team is doing its job well, but I just wanted to check.
> Dynamic web applications arguably have bigger attack surface than
> effectively a bunch of static files only editable after you gain server
> access.
>
> Paweł
>
>
>
IMHO, the criteria for being able to edit the wiki should be lower than the
present requirements on "being a Gentoo Dev".

There should still be some degree of vetting, but the risk a person poses
being able to make doc updates is significantly less than the risk a person
poses by throwing them a CVS bit.

I'd be interested in seeing if theres' a way to have "vetted" edits of some
kind, ala a patchqueue/pull-merge feature but for wikis, allowing a user to
edit a page as they see fit, but the changes are only visible to them until
they mark their edits "done" where it can be pushed to a moderation queue
for somebody trusted to check over.

Because otherwise, I feel you're missing out on the benefits of wiki.

A game I play, tribalwars.com, has a wiki, but the purpose of having a wiki
is incredibly redundant, because most the documentation there is grossly
out of date, and the tribalwars staff (the only people who can edit it)
don't edit anything themselves much, and as a result, there are huge chunks
of the wiki that are blatantly wrong, and I would edit them if I could, and
there is no good reason to suggest my edits would be likely "malevolent" in
fixing this, but alas, due to fear of abuse to security, the wiki hugely
misses its intended audience and is practically useless, and the rigmarole
that is required for any casual user correcting finding a minor flaw is so
great, it simply never occurs.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Hi Kent, 
> 
> IMHO, the criteria for being able to edit the wiki should be lower than the
> present requirements on "being a Gentoo Dev".

Only a small subset of official pages is locked, everything else is free to 
edit for anyone who signs himself up.

> 
> I'd be interested in seeing if theres' a way to have "vetted" edits of some
> kind, ala a patchqueue/pull-merge feature but for wikis, allowing a user to
> edit a page as they see fit, but the changes are only visible to them until
> they mark their edits "done" where it can be pushed to a moderation queue
> for somebody trusted to check over.
> 

That exists and is used in the German Wikipedia.
(Basically, you get the last "vetted" page by default, with a small message 
saying "newer versions available".)

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Moving project pages to wiki.gentoo.org

[Alex Xu]

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On 16/06/13 04:36 PM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> Hi Kent, 
>>
>> IMHO, the criteria for being able to edit the wiki should be lower than the
>> present requirements on "being a Gentoo Dev".
> 
> Only a small subset of official pages is locked, everything else is free to 
> edit for anyone who signs himself up.
> 
>>
>> I'd be interested in seeing if theres' a way to have "vetted" edits of some
>> kind, ala a patchqueue/pull-merge feature but for wikis, allowing a user to
>> edit a page as they see fit, but the changes are only visible to them until
>> they mark their edits "done" where it can be pushed to a moderation queue
>> for somebody trusted to check over.
>>
> 
> That exists and is used in the German Wikipedia.
> (Basically, you get the last "vetted" page by default, with a small message 
> saying "newer versions available".)
> 

MediaWiki has a builtin "flag" mechanism for revisions, but this serves
only to try to get all revisions reviewed by at least one person.

"Pending Changes" as implemented by the English Wikipedia uses
Extension:FlaggedRevs [0] which, in the most common configuration,
allows anyone to edit but hides their changes from the general public
until an authorized user approves the changes. [1]

[0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pending_changes


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