From: Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 11:55:24 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <51A1DC0C.2070706@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130526084332.1a8afa69@gentoo.org>
On 5/26/13 8:43 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:54:48 +0200
> Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> - /sbin/init (or whatever linux currently calls by default with top
>> priority) should be either a symlink to the actual implementation or a
>> wrapper such as our gcc one. I like better the latter since it is
>> overall safer. The former might or might work since linux has some
>> fallback capabilities but hadn't been tested.
>
> Increased complexity is never safer. And a wrapper means the additional
> complexity gets there every boot. And considering how the discussion
> goes, the wrapper will grow openrc-size in a few months...
Openrc is small, but the wrapper really needs to know which is which and
worst case switch inittab.
> Symlinks are simple. They're filesystem feature, they're handled
> by kernel. The worst thing that could happen is symlink target
> disappearing -- but then it's:
>
> a) our responsibility to make sure to call eselect-init (if applies)
> when uninstalling an init system,
>
> b) something that would fail anyway if user did that by hand.
>
> Linux fallback mechanism is *good enough*. You may think that fallback
> to sysvinit is good but it's not. *If* I have my system set up to boot
> X, at some point the config for Y will get seriously outdated.
Have you tested it? Do you know what is the reaction of do_exec on a
dangling symlink?
> I use systemd for a few months now, and last time I checked openrc
> boots somehow. But considering the general complexity of it, I wouldn't
> be much surprised if it failed in funny ways (like not being able to
> handle automounts properly), caused cruft on the filesystem or even
> caused *damage*.
openrc is *simpler* much *simpler* than systemd, stop with that.
> And since you've been failing long at keeping init.d scripts simple
> and reasonable, the damage potential is not something purely
> theoretical.
wc -l is a good answer to your concern. Some scripts have to be
simplified, that's a given (e.g. Fabio pointed the lvm one can be
improved a lot) but it isn't the case for most of them.
> Pointless and overcomplex. If an init system actually fails to work
> when /sbin/init doesn't point to it, it is seriously broken by design.
> And because of that breakage, we keep stuff like 'telinit' or 'reboot'
> intact, and because of it systemd has 'pass-through' mode when linked
> to /sbin/init.
Check your facts, systemd either understands a flavour of inittab or the
other or none at all.
> Which means the kernel fallback will be dangerously active
> as I explained before. Just don't do it.
It is not dangerous beside for those that have an inittab with rm -fR /
lu
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-05-26 9:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 139+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-05-25 9:54 [gentoo-dev] eselect init Luca Barbato
2013-05-25 10:25 ` Peter Stuge
2013-05-25 11:57 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 1:52 ` Walter Dnes
2013-05-26 8:50 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 2:02 ` Peter Stuge
2013-05-26 8:56 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-25 19:08 ` Matthew Thode
2013-05-26 14:13 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-05-26 23:54 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-25 11:13 ` Pacho Ramos
2013-05-25 12:03 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-25 12:25 ` Pacho Ramos
2013-05-25 15:42 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-25 11:29 ` Sergei Trofimovich
2013-05-25 12:12 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-25 13:15 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-25 17:35 ` Sergei Trofimovich
2013-05-25 19:49 ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2013-05-25 12:13 ` hasufell
2013-05-25 15:51 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-25 13:38 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-25 19:09 ` J. Roeleveld
2013-05-25 19:55 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-25 20:07 ` Alex Xu
2013-05-25 20:59 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 12:59 ` J. Roeleveld
2013-05-26 13:58 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 14:54 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-05-26 13:15 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 14:07 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 14:44 ` Rich Freeman
2013-05-26 6:43 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 8:58 ` Robert David
2013-05-26 9:20 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 9:32 ` Robert David
2013-05-26 9:45 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 10:09 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 11:45 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 12:01 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 9:21 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 10:01 ` Robert David
2013-05-26 10:11 ` Rich Freeman
2013-05-26 10:18 ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2013-05-26 11:28 ` hasufell
2013-05-26 12:10 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 9:55 ` Luca Barbato [this message]
2013-05-26 10:39 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 10:57 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 11:40 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-26 12:08 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 12:24 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-26 14:58 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-05-27 10:36 ` [gentoo-dev] Switchup-mode and boottime selector? Was: " Duncan
2013-05-27 20:26 ` Alex Xu
2013-05-27 22:40 ` Walter Dnes
2013-05-28 9:56 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2013-05-28 11:56 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-29 0:36 ` Duncan
2013-05-29 8:52 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-29 18:15 ` Walter Dnes
2013-05-29 19:56 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-29 20:55 ` William Hubbs
2013-05-30 0:06 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-30 0:22 ` William Hubbs
2013-05-30 1:36 ` Duncan
2013-05-30 6:35 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-30 20:41 ` William Hubbs
2013-05-30 6:46 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2013-05-30 13:54 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-05-31 6:21 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2013-05-30 6:30 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-22 19:35 ` Markos Chandras
2013-05-30 2:52 ` Walter Dnes
2013-05-30 6:19 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-30 6:36 ` Dale
2013-05-30 6:31 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2013-05-28 3:55 ` [gentoo-dev] " Luca Barbato
2013-05-28 4:19 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-28 4:43 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-28 12:15 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-05-28 12:15 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-05-26 11:58 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 14:52 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-26 15:39 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-05-26 16:41 ` William Hubbs
2013-05-26 16:48 ` William Hubbs
2013-05-26 16:55 ` Michał Górny
2013-05-26 22:58 ` William Hubbs
2013-05-26 23:47 ` Luca Barbato
2013-05-27 23:45 ` [gentoo-dev] Separate boot/root already [WAS: eselect init] Walter Dnes
2013-05-28 15:07 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-01 9:23 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: eselect init Steven J. Long
2013-06-01 11:43 ` Steven J. Long
2013-06-02 9:15 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-02 18:20 ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-06-02 18:48 ` Fabio Erculiani
2013-06-08 13:37 ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-06-02 22:35 ` [gentoo-dev] " Luca Barbato
2013-06-03 0:37 ` Walter Dnes
2013-06-03 0:57 ` Rich Freeman
2013-06-03 7:03 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-06-03 9:42 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-03 6:19 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2013-06-03 6:26 ` [gentoo-dev] " Pacho Ramos
2013-06-04 18:55 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-04 19:09 ` Rich Freeman
2013-06-08 13:28 ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-06-20 10:16 ` [gentoo-dev] " Fabio Erculiani
2013-06-20 17:10 ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-06-20 20:48 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-25 4:53 ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-06-20 20:56 ` [gentoo-dev] " William Hubbs
2013-06-21 2:39 ` Michał Górny
2013-06-21 4:16 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-21 10:23 ` Michał Górny
2013-06-21 15:16 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-21 15:23 ` Fabio Erculiani
2013-06-21 16:42 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-22 11:23 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2013-06-22 11:57 ` hasufell
2013-06-21 19:34 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-22 1:27 ` Ulrich Mueller
2013-06-22 1:48 ` Michael Weber
2013-06-21 15:29 ` Michał Górny
2013-06-21 16:13 ` Markos Chandras
2013-06-21 16:50 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-21 19:36 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-21 10:30 ` Michael Weber
2013-06-21 11:19 ` Fabio Erculiani
2013-06-21 11:26 ` Pacho Ramos
2013-06-21 11:50 ` Luca Barbato
2013-06-21 14:36 ` William Hubbs
2013-06-21 15:48 ` Pacho Ramos
2013-06-22 6:59 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2013-06-22 10:07 ` Pacho Ramos
2013-06-22 11:13 ` Michael Weber
2013-06-22 11:26 ` Rich Freeman
2013-06-22 17:05 ` Luca Barbato
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