Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

[Daniel Campbell <dlcampbell@gmx.com>]

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On 05/26/2013 01:55 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2013 01:24:03 -0500 Daniel Campbell 
> <dlcampbell@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 05/25/2013 02:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
>>> We are moving too quickly on bug #448882 ([Tracker] packages 
>>> not providing systemd units).  We should come to better 
>>> consensus on systemd integration and we were getting there
>>> with the idea of INSTALL_MASK. I don't know that it is a
>>> working solution yet.  I have to oppose adding unit files
>>> unless we have a way to opt out for reasons I gave earlier,
>>> regarding embedded systems where one needs to conserve space 
>>> aggressively.  And we may have found a way to do so without 
>>> cluttering ebuilds with USE flags.
>>> 
>>> Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for 
>>> opting out?  I can't support this initiative without such a 
>>> solution and I would be happy to work with the systemd people 
>>> to reach it, ie I'll test.
>> 
>> I'm not a dev (though I would like to be...), but consider me 
>> interested in testing an opt-out method as well. I'm going to
>> try INSTALL_MASK and see what happens. I'm not sure if any of my 
>> packages have systemd units yet, though.
> 
> Please fix your e-mail client to send replies to the mail you are 
> replying it, instead of the top mail in the thread.
> 
>> As far as resisting systemd, why is that so bad? Vertical 
>> integration is generally a bad idea with the sole exception of 
>> when your use case(s) line up perfectly with the ivory tower and 
>> you need all of the offered features. If Gentoo falls to
>> systemd, there will literally be no Linux-based distros left to
>> prevent it from taking over, and as a result Linux-based systems
>> will become more and more tightly integrated, killing the choice
>> that Gentoo truly stands for and homogenizing everything.
> 
> It is bad because ebuilds are not place to put politics into. If 
> you want to become dev, you should understand this. We are
> supposed to be serious people. Serious people don't break user
> systems or refuse to support them in the name of manifesting their
> wishes.
> 
> It is bad because it's not systemd that's losing, it's Gentoo. 
> Except for the fact that there's just a few people that take
> Gentoo seriously these days.
> 
> Upstreams clearly show that they don't care. We can either sit in 
> the corner and resent, or we can work on improving the situation. 
> And going on flamewars or manifestations doesn't really improve 
> anything, you should know that by now.
> 

Sorry, I sent the e-mail to the list under the wrong e-mail address
and retooled a forward to try to correct it. It seems my idea didn't
work. I'm using Thunderbird, so if this reply is screwed up as well,
I'd appreciate some insight to fix it.

I agree that user systems shouldn't be broken, and that devs should be
serious about their responsibilities. I'm not exactly sure how Gentoo
is losing out on anything, but that's probably because I'm biased
against systemd. From the opposite side of the fence, Gentoo may
become less relevant to the vertical integration people if it doesn't
support systemd in some form. It's a choice and thus it should be
supported. If INSTALL_MASK is really all that's needed to protect
anti-systemd people, then perhaps the Gentoo team doesn't need to do
anything at all, so that's awesome.

Each time I see this come up I wish there wasn't so much activism
present in the GNU/Linux world so people could focus more on fixing
problems and less on politics, but the politics have to be acted on
and/or against or it gets in the way of problem-solving and software
diversity.

I stick with Gentoo because most of the people working on it seem so
level-headed and keep the idea of choice in mind. I guess I'm
rambling, so I guess I'll close with a "Thanks".
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