From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD891381F3 for ; Thu, 16 May 2013 01:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DEBBFE08DC; Thu, 16 May 2013 01:31:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.mthode.org (rrcs-24-173-105-85.sw.biz.rr.com [24.173.105.85]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BD2E089F for ; Thu, 16 May 2013 01:31:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:e1cc:2:2677:3ff:fe25:a674] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:e1cc:2:2677:3ff:fe25:a674]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.mthode.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC39B1E42 for ; Wed, 15 May 2013 21:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <519436FA.3070605@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:31:38 -0500 From: Matthew Thode User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130410 Thunderbird/17.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users References: <20130508190832.0ea16c88@gentoo.org> <518A8901.6030302@gmail.com> <20130510094500.62b0c958@sera-20.lan> <5191F8B7.9080006@gentoo.org> <20130515141755.4d53f21e@gentoo.org> <20130515181813.GA27396@waltdnes.org> <20130516012008.GC8711@linux1> In-Reply-To: <20130516012008.GC8711@linux1> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6a1pre Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="----enig2UBUPUCIAMMTDENKTACUG" X-Archives-Salt: b9c11f63-cd38-499b-9db1-8b5c81697d02 X-Archives-Hash: f8e10089764f2f1fee5e197a6d9f47f8 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) ------enig2UBUPUCIAMMTDENKTACUG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/15/13 20:20, William Hubbs wrote: > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 02:18:13PM -0400, waltdnes@waltdnes.org wrote: >> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 03:41:31PM +0200, Fabio Erculiani wrote >>> Are we realizing that in order to keep systemd out of our way, we're >>> currently writing and maintaining drop-in replacements for the >>> features that systemd is already providing in an actively maintained >>> state? openrc-settingsd was the first thing that we as Gentoo >>> developers (Pacho?) had to write in order to merge GNOME 3.6 into our= >>> tree. >> >> So Redhat, who are heavily into GNOME >> ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Red_Hat_contributions#GNOME_developers= ) >> decided to make GNOME depend on other Redhat-developed software (syste= md >> and pulseadio). Well... like... dohhhh... >> >> Question... when Sun made OpenOffice depend on Java (also a Sun >> product) did Gentoo developers run around suggesting that Java be made= a >> part of the core Gentoo base system? I don't think so. If a user wan= ts >> to run GNOME badly enough, he'll switch to systemd. I don't see why t= he >> rest of us (i.e. non-users of GNOME) should have to follow along and >> reconfigure our systems. This is a case of the tail wagging the dog. > =20 > I don't interpret what he is saying that way. I think what he is > talking about is that we are trying to get teams to support non-system= d > setups when upstreams do not, like with gnome. >=20 > Gnome now has a hard dependency on systemd (for gnome newer than 3.8).= > Some folks want to use gnome without systemd and are putting that unde= r > the gentoo is about choice banner and want us to support them. >=20 >>> So what do we want to do then? Isolate from the rest of the world? >>> (It's not a sarcastic question). I hope that everybody does their >>> own reality check. >> >> You are effectively calling not-using-GNOME isolationist. Let's jus= t >> say I disagree with you on that. BTW, see my sig. >=20 > See above. >=20 > William >=20 If upstream gnome has that dep on systemd then I kinda think we should too (technical decision, not one I like personally) --=20 -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) ------enig2UBUPUCIAMMTDENKTACUG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRlDb/AAoJECRx6z5ArFrDc1wQAJkZ9YKMKkTISqdUnn0/yvBo PXF7HMsH0bUwRk8jt8shlHu0S65zs5rshqg0QxyLGxWwY+EHNlYnWm2F01kx2QrJ syc/r8VJNf+btMN9qjxFnikhjpgV8rSUGHDGDGoarzKLRB7PuRwuk4VGgPJSHD2R ldriSLaVf+G83wVUXL75rxi3lmNzMgQw5CKdme0K2dMjjhQzrbV2uG32shqSAnBY 3tPCMWBDJvescqsvCbvRi2WwjK2tT02smSZZqG9F/laq1VqZMpH2kplYakpyibnq BEHuZ4+B88j226eaaTg9cVMJdfpmOGFTDFnAzs7bmtUpMEwJPySIjs0jDdpQFV92 9Y1uHniQ8AGlH6bs8IdLJhCVzjAX3VZ2cKfkVhKXpsWcXHdBdEE+9e399WfjsI1L Aik/Db2GpkqoEuodJvP6sOcBEvkYaYyvvB7UATS3mpT9+XBhk8nAAGEb6dOF7ch/ s3RgB8K0MBOe4Mu50tZBRra9bmeTrFkq4RjNrQ1Y3Ixv7cAVXygeVYucJLKe7pCm 4FwYqO0ce1gAQ+RjxB1bduBrsheOiH/54q6K1kQQ43br2lvvPwhcj4RrjQ8AykNY 8/bZFbn8lbYzFW3tXuIiRZwJIVcNo85AC4OaaqAhbLI5Z/D1vkZIG+yvqq8uyoYP 9Ed3ljpzohvslG8/Yg4c =XkMA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------enig2UBUPUCIAMMTDENKTACUG--