Re: [gentoo-dev] Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users

[Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org>]

On 05/15/2013 03:41 PM, Fabio Erculiani wrote:
> Are we realizing that in order to keep systemd out of our way, we're
> currently writing and maintaining drop-in replacements for the
> features that systemd is already providing in an actively maintained
> state? openrc-settingsd was the first thing that we as Gentoo
> developers (Pacho?) had to write in order to merge GNOME 3.6 into our
> tree.

> And now that GNOME 3.8 is out, the game starts over again: logind is a
> hard requirement, logind is part of systemd, starting logind (which
> replaces consolekit) is not that trivial as you may think (and is the
> thing I started to work on anyway).

> And if this wasn't enough, it means that if you want GNOME 3.8, you
> need to get logind, which may or not may get included in our udev
> ebuild and if it won't, it means that you will be forced to use
> systemd as device manager if you want GNOME 3.8, which is believe it
> or not, the thing that Ubuntu did.

> The problem will only increase in size as the clock moves.

And given that the end-plan according to the guys is to kill the
distributions shall we just close Gentoo now?

> And (and!) how does all this fit together with eudev? If the idea is
> to either put logind in udev (thus, not creating a separate logind
> ebuild), it means that eudev is already a dead end for GNOME users,
> unless the eudev team is going to provide logind as well.

Are there specifications regarding logind ? Is that so incredibly
terrible write and maintain 1k loc?

> I don't want to start a flamewar here, I was the one who called
> Lennart software lennartware, but science is science, and a reality
> check had to be done: at some near point in the future, our users will
> be forced to replace udev/eudev with systemd. Like it. Or not.


Science is science, systemd doesn't work with anything but linux, Gentoo
in theory should care about not-linux.

> While I successfully use both openrc and systemd, I _do_ think that
> (and expect to see) more and more users (and developers) will be
> switching to systemd.

Surely sysadmins will be delighted about that.

> Is there anything we can do? Besides "being prepared", I don't think so.
> Do we control upstreams? No, sorry.

I'm upstream for some stuff, vlc was already really close to force-kill
pulseaudio because of some cute problems, the thing got otherwise fixed.

Upstream does what is most sensible for the users, usually.

Freebsd, openbsd and some other operating systems are still there, they
have their reasons and usually work better in those fields than other,
I'm sure some people would wish to kill them, not going to happen
anytime soon.

> So what do we want to do then? Isolate from the rest of the world?

The world is bigger than that and we were making bridges around, *why*
severing them because somebody else decided for you?

> (It's not a sarcastic question). I hope that everybody does their own
> reality check. 

Did mine, other experienced the hard way what I said many times.

Gnome doesn't seem a good reason to leave in the cold people that do not
even care about it.

lu