From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CDA1381F3 for ; Wed, 1 May 2013 14:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 04E26E08DA; Wed, 1 May 2013 14:20:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.mthode.org (rrcs-24-173-105-85.sw.biz.rr.com [24.173.105.85]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09500E08A0 for ; Wed, 1 May 2013 14:20:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.3.42] (unknown [10.0.3.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.mthode.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E68D6FD8 for ; Wed, 1 May 2013 10:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <518124A8.3070406@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 09:20:24 -0500 From: Matthew Thode User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130410 Thunderbird/17.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6a1pre Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="----enig2NSXWNKJCGBUGPUWIDGWQ" X-Archives-Salt: d6b9957f-44d7-43c7-a7ce-8364ae0c6ec9 X-Archives-Hash: 6c148f9624001a65ed35843deb83d5af This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) ------enig2NSXWNKJCGBUGPUWIDGWQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/01/13 05:04, Fabio Erculiani wrote: > PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR AND READ ON FIRST. > THIS IS NOT A POST AGAINST OPENRC. >=20 > With the release of Sabayon 13.04 [1] and thanks to the efforts I put > into the systemd-love overlay [2], systemd has become much more > accessible and easy to migrate to/from openrc. Both are able to > happily coexist and logind/consolekit detection is now done at > runtime. > It is sad to say that the "territoriality" in base-system (and > toolchain) is not allowing any kind of progress [3] [4]. This is > nothing new, by the way. >=20 > There are several components that need patching in order to work as > expected with systemd: > - polkit needs a patch that enables runtime detection of logind/console= kit > - pambase needs to drop USE=3Dsystemd and always enable the optional > module pam_systemd.so > - genkernel needs to migrate to *udev (or as I did, provide a --udev > genkernel option), mdev is unable to properly activate LVM volumes and > LVM is actually working by miracle with openrc. Alternatively, we > should migrate to dracut. > - networkmanager need not to install/remove files depending on > USE=3Dsystemd but rather detect systemd at runtime, which is a 3 lines > script. > - openrc-settingsd needs to support eselect-settingsd, which makes > possible to switch the settingsd implementation at runtime, between > openrc and systemd. This also removes the silly conflict between > openrc-settingsd and systemd friends. > - genkernel should at least support plymouth (work in progress my side)= > - other ~490 systemd units are missing at this time and writing them > could also be a great GSoC project (don't look at me, I'm busy > enough). >=20 > All this would come with no cost for the current openrc state > (actually, my initramfs speed improvements patches in genkernel.git > also benefit openrc). > If Gentoo is about choice, we should give our users the right to > choose between the init system they like the most. >=20 > It looks like there is some consensus on the effort of making systemd > more accessible, while there are problems with submitting bugs about > new systemd units of the sort that maintainers just_dont_answer(tm). > In this case, I am just giving 3 weeks grace period for maintainers to > answer and then I usually go ahead adding units (I'm in systemd@ after > all). >=20 > The only remaining problem is about eselect-sysvinit, for this reason, > I am probably going to create a new separate pkg called > _sysvinit-next_, that contains all the fun stuff many developers were > not allowed to commit (besides my needs, there is also the need of > splitting sysvinit due to the issues reported in [4]). I am sure that > a masked alternative sysvinit ebuild won't hurt anybody and will make > Gentoo a bit more fun to use. >=20 > The final outcome will hopefully be: > - easier to migrate from/to systemd, at runtime, with NO recompilation > at all (just enable USE=3Dsystemd and switch the device manager from > *udev to systemd -- unless somebody wants to drop the udev part from > systemd, if at all possible) > - we give the users the right to choose without driving them nuts with > weird emerge-fu. > - we make possible to support new init systems in future, and even > specific init wrappers (bootchart anyone?) > - we prepare the path towards a painless migration from consolekit > (deprecated for long time now) to logind (we probably need to fork it > off the systemd pkg -- upstream projects are _dropping_ consolekit > support right now!) > - we put back some fun into Gentoo >=20 > If you want to see a working implementation of my systemd-love > efforts, just go download [1] and see things working yourself. >=20 > [1] http://www.sabayon.org/release/press-release-sabayon-1304 > [2] https://github.com/Sabayon/systemd-love > [3] For instance: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D465236 > [4] "useless crap": https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D399615 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 Isn't there a tracker (and if not, why have you not created one yet :P ) --=20 -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) ------enig2NSXWNKJCGBUGPUWIDGWQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRgSSuAAoJECRx6z5ArFrDvhUP/iBgCWjZf+GT6Wu3Vnl3GDTQ VctkfM9tehnxIBtlT3sMcUJQzDfqCAGboVAVpXdSbFqCrdYorQqPgAM0Xim6Wub8 sO/rPDpjkRAvx6FZS8+2jjDPCqsXd9sY60+HpIs5VyCfcRMLekAP+9R/SEpdT1pp rIWWf/B7gJxwkDybcts6tnRH18sY/bWoQB2e3OdISMeqL6ubYG/4jcEZryUEHLmy jgGPdf2+Ia6sO1lgBqINvmuYatkEEBqd2awuB++Jlih58+5uUGfmMIAzEP4FD53n pV5fWurF4CcTGaVDcqFb9I8FVOcTRz/0Z/WAKHZznrlpf/9VmPiSO1oGNVpUoekB O3xTeCHRtRdHvIQ6ubXSpHoJqjFqFX5XCLwM43vwXVxFGe3XXlL31hGIlLbXlool Q3GvL72+Y44BEXHyYGnfoVRpdqvN6D7bEWyukHZ7uOlHMzqzUtlrHpbfcYjD8I5u 84ULfqR4HeGO7dSK6Ex1jf122S7ANJjUreiaGZ4Lp+2gQb6PcDzzIGT3AnSJ5v+t eRzCRe5q3pP4gcK2nvjtNkXlZoeRhOOjQR4zQq3BZ1OyJ5rU3Q3nvP9/kbkqpQz1 r7r3TO5GZgTzBt3Pl77ozzC5YdGhpiULJGcd9dQh41+rj2Ee/KzUpikETUWso6Oc A1nMK7SyrNhaEGn5/4qu =j+SJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------enig2NSXWNKJCGBUGPUWIDGWQ--