From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE915138A39 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:48:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DB1AE0504; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:48:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 101A2E0495 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:48:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.45]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2F12000D for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.160]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:48:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=binarywings.net; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; s=mesmtp; bh=S6INVBRTua7cA1dQCq6Vevry Ajw=; b=nfMipeKmwvh0+INn3cGzE/ZHwePiQ6vhNYGkRRCmsAFVKR4B52Nyf9fZ GFTMUs4EvNhAr46H7TnbORO7BexObXtdCDxJgPoTPZSSSagl4wZfKNig7DzZMXRR kkA2vStHrMV43Pj/4JwudWBA8MdtxH7YwPRXeInjoXqX5rZ95Rg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; s=smtpout; bh=S6IN VBRTua7cA1dQCq6VevryAjw=; b=nleLSiRBVXUYWqmzwZuGD/blqqUiBqxAyAAR z/o/jt0mnzmpuraD1jl9AGsvNSE0PT5B04CEj/x5aewyDmwWohKL2NAG9sho0oEy Z1QoPRwbD+T1naDIbXcTQTXsWhg5M18lFzrskS+Nxqnss6X8aDf8Fxt8zpuMEByw EO6/gck= X-Sasl-enc: pXZmSCPpju0i4W6JwEN8PqHGRgiOUXrH6S6/XzC8IlYe 1360882083 Received: from [192.168.5.18] (unknown [83.169.5.6]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 615C68E03E9 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:48:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <511D6998.6090804@binarywings.net> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:47:52 +0100 From: Florian Philipp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130202 Thunderbird/17.0.2 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] RFC: Graveyard project References: <511D5D6D.9010608@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <511D5D6D.9010608@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="----enig2PEUMLRVMIQXVILMOCSQJ" X-Archives-Salt: 93bde793-4998-413a-8c7e-05103514d2da X-Archives-Hash: dc1e9f5bb0bf8f5beed87dfb0addedd3 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) ------enig2PEUMLRVMIQXVILMOCSQJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 14.02.2013 22:55, schrieb Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina: > On 02/14/2013 04:31 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: >> Hi guys and girls, >=20 >> We hereby announce the formation of the Graveyard project [1]. It aims= >> to provide users with an overlay for packages removed from portage. >> Users are expressly invited to partake in this project, to help >> maintain the graveyard overlay [2]. We will also help organize a >> central space to host distfiles that are no longer mirrored by Gentoo >> and have a broken upstream link. We use the #gentoo-dev-help channel >> on Freenode for coordination, as well as our project space on the wiki= >> [3]. >=20 > What exactly is wrong with the current cvs attic space? I've salvaged > old ebuilds and it was a completely painless process. >=20 The attic is not a ready-to-use overlay. Part of the idea is to remove the effort of keeping local overlays. Why revive a package N times when one time is sufficient? Besides, distfiles for ebuilds in the attic are probably no longer mirrored and for dead upstreams, they might not exist anywhere else, eith= er. > Things that have been treecleaned were not just haphazardly removed, > there is typically very good (often security or complete build failure > related) reasons for this to happen. Running an overlay of old, > outdated, unbuildable, security vulnerable software... I know there is > no formal process for rejecting a gentoo project but even this idea > makes me want to get council approval for an extension to the gentoo > project guidelines. >=20 There have been at least three discussions on what is to be treecleaned and what not in the past few months. I don't think we have to re-iterate them. Suffice to say there are more than enough cases where a) no dev wants to maintain a package anymore, b) a case can be made that the package should not be left rotting in tree and c) someone might still have use for the package. There is simply an unsolvable disagreement between those who want a slick and well maintained tree and those who view the sheer size of the tree as one of Gentoo's assets. In this way. the whole discussion reminds me of the deletionism debate on Wikipedia [1] with the difference that here there is an easy compromise. So why not make it? > If users want to salvage things from the cvs attic and put them into > SUNRISE after fixing them up I'm fine with it, but the whole idea of > this is bad for gentoo developers, bad for gentoo users, bad for gentoo= > image, I just don't see a single advantage to this and so many > disadvantages. >=20 Why is the overlay bad for anyone? No dev is forced to contribute to it and no user has to activate it. There are dozens of overlays out there which are not meant to be activated unless you know what you are doing. I don't see how this can affect Gentoo's image (as observed by whom, anyway?). I mean, it's no different than the attic, just more convenient. It's just one more niche in this great Gentoo ecosystem. kde-sunset isn't hurting anyone, either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletionism_and_inclusionism_in_Wikiped= ia Regards, Florian Philipp ------enig2PEUMLRVMIQXVILMOCSQJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEdaZsACgkQqs4uOUlOuU8BAgCfX1eDuN146pib2cq6OyL+P0c3 KpcAn3e7o3YUlgJ6+szWke1djplP24UO =r5+M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------enig2PEUMLRVMIQXVILMOCSQJ--