From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA80A1393A3 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A62B7E0665; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:41:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-da0-f46.google.com (mail-da0-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 291ADE0665 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-da0-f46.google.com with SMTP id p5so3945330dak.33 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:39:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fB1B+xXfKV4pfJohn8sP//VEmYyc6zIhfLewBRHEjJ8=; b=WmKF2+gHkCxgs6DkAbBfTrG3PS+NNQwOJ5SuSSPdAk98wzH9atE26cpLhJ5S1MsETr SFsA0elylRTQiOhg0vYWJ1yuAbaAfuy57lnh3aLS2laeDCfFr3HzvbdQik1W+qDlTofY rSL7lLjn6Ty8MIrd1+CigXxuyTF9PVB6a2ZuNDBgStreHJjGGqDIGhI4SHatwNGdShpd +l4TZrYIn/dtoeOg+mCzti6mXTI1/Mh3NxGaxFfJnwq68Vj6rZ6s2imZfxoCKidmoDtC 4VoZ9IdjQWC4XJfDOubaslLQGFGDv5r7Hn1G5aJ/pGtigPdFLOdarGbxAtY0GUKBPY4t ejzA== X-Received: by 10.68.135.67 with SMTP id pq3mr87225845pbb.127.1356539945554; Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.153] ([203.79.120.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id oi2sm16140463pbb.62.2012.12.26.08.39.03 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:39:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50DB2824.6040000@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 05:39:00 +1300 From: Kent Fredric User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/20.0a1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Attracting developers (Re: Packages up for grabs...) References: <50CDFD7F.7040207@orlitzky.com> <50CE62DE.3060608@orlitzky.com> <20121217104006.4f149977@pomiocik.lan> <20121219075656.3d07efab@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> <20121219100343.61de5cd1@pomiocik.lan> In-Reply-To: <20121219100343.61de5cd1@pomiocik.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 0e788236-91f0-4cc7-bbd3-abf64ce2eab6 X-Archives-Hash: 433319a5a4de129855e37de7d56d6e35 On 19/12/2012 10:03 p.m., Michał Górny wrote: > Doesn't this prove that the recruitment process fails to work? > > If I were to throw random ideas, I'd think about letting new recruits > did all commits through a proxy (mentor?). Of course, it all would be > easier if we used git. > I know this side question of "git" migration is one we want to avoid discussing, I know its in progress. But I am literally waiting for it to happen, because for whatever reason, the present barriers to contribution are too high for me without it. I can't put an exact finger on it, but devs seem to think the quiz methodology is "easy", but it ( oh, and CVS ) are a high barrier to entry for me. I don't have the time/motivation/focus required to commit to even completing the quizzes, and I don't have the time/motivation/focus really required to be a "full dev", and I don't even want to be a "Full dev" really. But I basically have found every time I've done the quiz, its eventually boiled down to a cycle of 1. Read quiz 2. Find it hard to find documentation on 3. Search for 4. Get lost 5. Find the resulting information I eventually find is vague and confusing with regard to the question. 6. Eventually get distracted and do something other than the rest of the quiz. I know, it should be easy, and I'm probably making excuses, but it boils down to 1. People in Gentoo have asked me to/encouraged me to do the quizzes 2. I've tried several times 3. Still not there. 4. This problem is not so prevalent in the dozens of other projects I've contributed to. As soon as Git migration is done, then I can just 1. Fork 2. Hack 3. Somebody can watch/review/cherry-pick commits I make if they like them, if not, I'm not worried. But the git part aside, back to the quiz. Surely, I'm not the /only/ person to get roadblocked by the quiz. The only thing really keeping me around as a half-assed dev is the fact we have overlays and the fact that the overlays are git based, and I get /some/ notion of contributions being of value there. Can we short cut the whole quiz process and have some "Inbound" repository until we're full git, which people can fork/commit/pull and trusted people can review submitted branches and apply them to CVS? Because I feel its quite possible partly that CVS is due to blame ( due to requiring of trusted commit, which requires the questions ) that there is difficulty getting devs, and the longer we're stuck with it, the more it will be a problem. It could actually be just the Proxy Maintainer workflow is not clear enough, or simple enough, and that we need more push towards a more heavy proxy-maintainer based system ( I don't know, I'm ignorant to too much of proxy-maintainer-ship stuff, to discern /why/ that is might be difficult, but I'd imagine my ignorance is part of the problem )