Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: eudev project announcement

[Richard Yao <ryao@gentoo.org>]

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On 12/17/2012 06:23 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 01:31:59PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:40PM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> Olav Vitters <olav@vitters.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:29:26AM -0500, Richard Yao wrote:
>>>>> As I said in an earlier email, Lennart Poettering claims that it does
>>>>> not work. We are discussing some of the things necessary to make it
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> Just to repeat:
>>>> In this thread it was claimed that a separate /usr is not supported by
>>>> systemd/udev.
>>>>
>>>> A case which works with latest systemd on various distributions. I
>>>> checked with upstream (not Lennart), and they confirmed it works. I can
>>>> wait for Lennart to say the same, but really not needed.
>>>>
>>>> I assume this will again turn into a "but I meant something else".
>>>
>>> Olav.
>>>
>>> Lennart has stated that he considers a seperate /usr without init* broken.
>>
>> Yes, as do I, and so do a lot of other developers.
>>
>> But that is a system configuration issue, not a systemd issue, please
>> don't confuse the two.
>>
>>> This has worked correctly in the past.
>>
>> Define "past" please.
>>
>> Note, it's still broken, I have yet to see any upstream fixes to resolve
>> all of the issues that are involved here with "fixing" this up.
>>
>> Yes, as always, for some subset of users, you can be lucky and it will
>> work for them, but those systems are getting rarer and rarer these days,
>> as the rest of upstream (not systemd here) are moving on and not doing
>> anything to change their behavior for this topic.
>>
>>> The direction udev development is going, according to Lennart, is to
>>> make that impossible and he refuses to fix this regression.
>>
>> Again, this has NOTHING to do with udev or systemd, as has been pointed
>> out numerous times.  I understand your _wish_ that it would have
>> something to do with it, but that will not change the facts, sorry.
>>
>>> I am really happy with this project and intend on testing it once
>>> requests for this appear in the eudev mailing list.
>>
>> Good luck, the root problems still remain, and nothing that eudev ever
>> does can resolve that, sorry.
>>
>> Can this topic finally be put to rest please?  There is a whole web page
>> devoted to this topic, why do people blindly ignore it?
>  
>  This is a very good question.
> 
>> Again, a separate /usr without an initrd has NOTHING to do with systemd
>> or udev, with the minor exception that Gentoo's packaging of those
>> programs _might_ have an issue, but that is Gentoo's issue, NOT
>> upstream's issue.
>>
>> If anyone involved with eudev, or is involved with the Gentoo Council
>> thinks that the previous paragraph is incorrect, they are flat out
>> wrong.
>  
> This all started with the April 2012 council meeting when it was pushed
> through that separate /usr without an initramfs is a supported
> configuration, so yes, the previous council started this issue.
> 
> Also, yes, eudev believes they will be able to fix it.
> 
> I am another one who has been pointing out how this is wrong multiple
> times but my statements about it are falling on deaf ears.
> 
> William
> 

I have also explained how we can fix this multiple times and I can say
that my explanations have been ignored. The eudev project's solution to
this can be summarized in the few sentences that I said in a response to
gregkh (after you wrote your email):

>I reject
>the notion that there be a single rules directory. That opens the door
>to having a second directory on /usr that enforce the requirement that
>rules that depend on /usr execute after /usr is mounted.

The only argument that has been made against it involves libraries that
cross the /usr boundary. I consider such situations to be avoidable.
There has been no other argument made against this approach and I am
quite confident that it is sound. Furthermore, it satisfies the request
of various users to support a separate /usr mount without an initramfs.
Satisfying that seems to me to be a worthwhile goal and it is one that I
and others believe that we can do.


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