From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80EBB13800E for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 21:38:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 19428E0477; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 21:38:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gg0-f181.google.com (mail-gg0-f181.google.com [209.85.161.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075B9E07E2 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 21:36:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggmb6 with SMTP id b6so117024ggm.40 for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:36:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/2ogAGMWyBZwuEUEOkJB81RPrw6pBPQe/hN5Dq7cSDU=; b=ZxYLLITwMwZh07lCGg0gJtB8XKcu+b5u3VKrJy2GsOYgp2B150t/OVmmIBiO4rGtrl FgbZCs+6XfkJY9geoPCAVSRoKo1De+cJ9LqIY+7yGGqIlgLKjDZKunoQQWrthiJ1XQH4 2byK5OuOEA71QZyCxBepzVeEr8yMAMg4EvHM9/QHXgoyNfzJ/j1tnC3Izyt1JLp5g//U ArwMKGS02WY0+AlDPjxl1iX/yOggxhAUKjDW3jAErHdLztcQcVLIMTJk7llnNKp1paML pt7Y++/QxofFlEG+CFyQRH9MiMKhlZPNEh1lGjIhtHdDNdVnVRby4eO10UTXKpx428ph Xx4Q== Received: by 10.236.127.199 with SMTP id d47mr15056960yhi.11.1344375393312; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-65-0-116-140.jan.bellsouth.net. [65.0.116.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x3sm38920789yhd.9.2012.08.07.14.36.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50218A5E.3090005@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 16:36:30 -0500 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120717 Firefox/14.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.11 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about SystemD and OpenRC References: <20120807141156.13030.qmail@stuge.se> <20120807182905.0f8c0121@pomiocik.lan> <20120807221321.164e4757@pomiocik.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120807221321.164e4757@pomiocik.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: a0abb10d-813f-4892-aded-d415e3e38d8c X-Archives-Hash: c8fa137d111f66596035a72b1225b27a Michał Górny wrote: > On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 13:31:32 -0400 > Michael Mol wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Michał Górny >> wrote: >>> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:33:59 -0400 >>> Sylvain Alain wrote: >>> >>>> The KDE team seems to work on that too : >>>> http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=134052539215508&w=2 >>> it's actually worth it. >>> more user-spread FUD or however you like to call it on the topic >>> than I'm not sure if *devs* are actually working on that. I believe >>> there's >> Perhaps not official Gentoo devs, but users taking development >> initiative to solve a problem in userland. I'm not an official Gentoo >> dev, either, but I think it'd be a very bad idea to discourage or >> ridicule such initiative. Someone putting in that much effort in light >> of all the information already available isn't something that should >> be taken lightly! > I don't want to offend anyone but let's be honest: people start many > initiatives, and they are not always right, no matter how many effort > is put. I don't want to discourage it but sometimes I dislike > the importunity accompanying it. > > Users are free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm > the rest of users. And I'm afraid that too much enthusiasm over mdev > will actually cause a number of users to end up being disappointed > that one or another magic requiring udev no longer works. User perspective follows: What I don't like about the way Walter, mdev, is being treated is this. People say that if you don't like the way udev is going, WRITE CODE. If you are not going to write code, don't complain about udev. Then Walter, I think I got the name right, comes along and comes up with a alternative for udev that seems to work well for the people using it. Then people complain because he is actually stepping up and WRITING CODE. Well, it seems a person can't win on this. Some, no names mentioned, need to make up their minds. Either listen when people don't like the way things are going or let people write code to have a alternative to whatever people are not liking and don't complain because people are stepping up and doing something about it, for example, writing code. As to mdev not being as feature rich as udev, well, some people don't need the features udev has and I don't think anyone is saying mdev is the same as udev. It even says on the wiki that there are some situations where it should not even be tried because it is known to not work. Given that, if a person tries to use mdev to replace udev in a situation where it is known not to work, then they should read more closely. It's not Walters fault, it's the person in the chair. Now, since Walter didn't like the way things are going, can he write code and be left in peace to do so? Maybe have a little bit of support while he is doing it? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!