From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DED21138334 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 03:08:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 25375E0932; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 03:08:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B42E9E091B for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 03:08:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (c-76-114-240-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net [76.114.240.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: kumba) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37AE134BE6E for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 03:08:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin' To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20191012110023.165840-1-soap@gentoo.org> <1bbad081be57654e20e590734ed8aa88dc6f6176.camel@gentoo.org> <20191012160228.GA2481@linux1.home> <25763900.3IMS5cSOPn@ernie> <86031cc11741c13b354ad85577a1e32c4ca97460.camel@gentoo.org> <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> From: Joshua Kinard Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <4fdaaef8-b25f-ee2f-505e-d647251d6af9@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 23:08:14 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 0eb521e0-0d01-460c-aefa-89621be92c3d X-Archives-Hash: 1a40a7dd850c1a29cf4f28ed9960e6a7 On 10/15/2019 13:34, David Seifert wrote: > On Tue, 2019-10-15 at 12:04 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 12:02 PM Mike Gilbert >> wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:00 AM David Seifert >>> wrote: >>>> On Sun, 2019-10-13 at 12:33 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 1:52 PM David Seifert >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 19:01 +0200, Dennis Schridde wrote: >>>>>>> On Samstag, 12. Oktober 2019 18:02:28 CEST William Hubbs >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 01:11:49PM +0200, Michał Górny >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 13:00 +0200, David Seifert wrote: >>>>>>>>>> * Some distros have not just merged / and /usr, they >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> have also merged /usr/bin and /usr/sbin. By giving >>>>>>>>>> users the choice of merging */bin and */sbin, >>>>>>>>>> Gentoo follows suit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What about the scenario when /bin has been merged with >>>>>>>>> /usr/sbin >>>>>>>>> and /sbin with /usr/bin? ;-P >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also don't see the need for something like this. The >>>>>>>> idea of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> /usr >>>>>>>> merge is to have all binaries available in one place, and >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>> is not a good justification for separating bin from sbin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do I read this correctly? USE=-split-usr currently means >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> /bin, >>>>>>> /sbin, / >>>>>>> usr/bin and /usr/sbin point to the same directory? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If that is not the case, then I agree that users should >>>>>>> have the >>>>>>> possibility >>>>>>> to set it up like this and USE=-split-sbin should be >>>>>>> supported. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Dennis >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree, I wasn't aware that USE=-split-usr implies the >>>>>> complete 2- >>>>>> level (/usr and *sbin) merge. In that case, all of this is >>>>>> obsolete. >>>>> >>>>> That was NOT my intention when I introduced the split-usr USE >>>>> flag. >>>>> >>>>> For bin/sbin, I would prefer to drop any conflicting links >>>>> unconditionally. Do you have examples of scenarios where this >>>>> is not >>>>> possible? >>>>> >>>> >>>> William has confirmed on IRC that USE=-split-usr performs the >>>> complete >>>> Fedora-esque /usr merge (which makes sense IMO). >>> >>> William's opinion is not the only one that matters. >> >> Sorry, I guess you are referring to the behavior baselayout? That >> doesn't necessarily align with the global usage. >> > > https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/baselayout.git/tree/Makefile#n93 > > Clearly the usr-merge in baselayout intends to merge all these 4 > directories. There is currently no option to merge /usr and / but keep > /bin and /sbin separate, so the most parsimonious solution here is to > assume that usr-merge semantics in Gentoo is about merging all 4 > directories. What is the source or origin point of the desire to merge /sbin into /bin? I know Fedora/RedHat championed the /usr/[s]bin into /[s]bin bit, but this is the first I've heard of trying to put all executables in one spot. I have my doubts about such an idea, but want to see what the rationale is this time before writing the idea off to the funny farm. My understanding for the separation was system binaries that only the superuser needs to touch go into /sbin and everything else into /bin. This allowed for unpriv user PATHs to exclude /sbin (and in times antiquity, also exclude /usr/sbin). -- Joshua Kinard Gentoo/MIPS kumba@gentoo.org rsa6144/5C63F4E3F5C6C943 2015-04-27 177C 1972 1FB8 F254 BAD0 3E72 5C63 F4E3 F5C6 C943 "The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between." --Emperor Turhan, Centauri Republic