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Fri, 14 Sep 2018 17:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing policy about -Werror To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20180909143221.21d784d02f51623e8c57c545@gentoo.org> <1536510660.863.9.camel@gentoo.org> <20180910074539.GA6512@baraddur.perfinion.com> <0d8b7f02-9c38-969c-413b-69d4dee6ca89@gentoo.org> <20180912085649.GA16516@baraddur.perfinion.com> <6c18c6bd-4cf3-dff6-2f20-c021063e01fa@gentoo.org> <20180913160347.GC26329@gentoo.org> From: Richard Yao Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=ryao@gentoo.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBE+1VSwBEACt340ZNODNjIC72bA4R53yyrQM/VwBjV9wBMggPjI9Mrg7t81k9q08Flq/ IshZYHyP5W2al/I+VQ0zWu/agOOhkTsP9wF+pT9Ti8qtzzENj2o7steziVWBTFrE10USgtaB vlWXTMG0zIFxJC1xy4Q2X/oTbvKxuZt1IhWxyWddKwWWCFHJqQdoiqdTjvFEIGNuYwqKxulD dyyDPiJcQztablyE9JL8F403ma4ZlJXsUaMQY7s+8IKzfU7QSzISEZhui7+JOdEPpauGC1u6 7V25QsXczYSQ9Q3/VtSku0pfqc43tBF535Q/z6RtdsllB2xsv3M0RUnRQCaUo+dVCmJPrVun hgZv8+sWKk8J3NP1plZD60Snnr89Y/09NvUMueLRs5KfbWdsqbot+8ZwCgOVSBkRlrhQPoI0 by3NOvsPd454+JwsZUGTiK5WD71xjN/MFSafRWcXB7xKNNSSbs67bAD9lDc+sxJNuJ9sLTca uL4YlVIjNxF6riNgLKaMq8TZfh4W0iOsB+RoA+H2/BFtFL4/xT2zInWIEkkTFahPrfPmRNl6 pIO5+4sxOVMtq754hudZZYysxqAnTUJ7F/+BMfQJD6b3HON7AfnDm1RVhfG9F0k/TzeaeLjt jAezJ6jrUdqgXuGvHeOIILTeenGr1BsdwltW3Q1c8zjvAaJsywARAQABzTBSaWNoYXJkIFlh byAoR2VudG9vIERldmVsb3BlcikgPHJ5YW9AZ2VudG9vLm9yZz7CwZgEEwEIAEICGyMGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEhCJwq0qcq+M9DlexIO4Rmb7oTGQFAls/zKkF CRTweP0ACgkQIO4Rmb7oTGTmFxAApRHFlRsLSe35J7sBNVRUBzr+grr5U7rsTUQgpSwT6S65 1kpiEOaNAH8U75ToLb8FTo2by+FJPmCujtoYsa7UwIM88AjFxhLf+zOFvTSH73JbI10VvrD+ qBkCeSar+icoJpkSKUpYmZ+GmJR4/zte0SFB81Fu7z5bwvMDd+5xybiIURNxmRv14dzNmfG8 vqI7sN95S5V4cgxlnG8Qfhsc1uaiVxnh8+dQDo4hhnJk8r0VGXDd9+FOiPuM2259BBoq6OhU 5PaaIHdJby7AMaV14e25xQmph9uqIDHKNjFSmuTJlzSB1SBnMJFh9uUGtGtJKcLLDTJs8OgG aAmukRUdR4tl1ML2X4aARuZh603PMleKF0iAZiT/VTBI2YGxG2LZ1E1GvaxuTYhjrpFm8L+t 54NdP0VrZUNc5FZvtjq8KVP5n4XJBJHOyVXkv7z+MdB91EhkGYOuXbO3ieLJiuhyj4PS6OfP 7XFx9Zw75CFGpXfZ65LHwGK/BrWFpm4MYTyAQbBmsGw0bU1D7GqEDWoXZxYq1nzc8u4IGb/u 1vEDHJLEqLv9DS3JVoyEpwsvlLs8D3GjlmQvDBDGlGpTTgpEkTnFsQIfnmDcmTtKvMzvDtk4 f8GSuPRlL2CvUa3wuhCqycfoGxQmz2xjzHIiCuC373P6vD6fjXm66RxY/hg2Z3/OwU0ET7VV LAEQALV7FjFWd5vkMfkwBqawlwnUPzw+mf4TTZqf8oulVxZQ0OodOi8t61VxA7CDpSIGZ+Jp 3z5TIeFgY93pVHBfW5FPVdpchNgSsd0QNKc2rVCzKYxAMzhrMPj6RFwBxs6xtTd0+PmGM5D7 5HxbfikCAoAqd/ChwQRj8oOZrQqO4Svk5dBQQylEkx7aVHUc6NQ9WXf50XUMAEOyhX/WP/bQ 14aghh2OD/olLh06S1pQbFfqAZyCBsW+edluEbHUt1RiPmnPToz59bgcRnccbgKEctrF7ubx BouVVMYjzytsPZHa+5OjrQ6owsBtR/J2yA473nXiX1PH/gB9CstUqn8WrgbPmR2EF/IU0okO LbW/aunZXR7WPBq/M4tC1g/7ex478BHarLoG/Wti5xHfpJzYfSTEhZ3gP3DnQ38TNePvtznC cifTkapfUCSOgX4JjqNE4Z8SQ20hCveJBUD3g5BFX4Y3mLfsRqEgrDLusyfNRHN6uDnC+M3S C+vSNqqcCAkOJSEDwgaEjmcIiW4dX+Snn8M3CJ+vckKRQyue6AnYAjZ+OkraABgPlhogLBJ0 KipxFvs4sPHnTBcqMD6kw3c/boFUHDBX6OtAFkKfYUjXV8fo6r8rNN17BeAT3pbtaI4lzluw 5nB2O0cNAOzlcIX8KoXzeyfwhA6vsyggCmhsNd0RABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQSEInCr Spyr4z0OV7Eg7hGZvuhMZAUCWz/MtAUJDWurCAAKCRAg7hGZvuhMZL1EEACMzMoArQMhxENB Fp/XLcNXg3jQXzGqD/PEYmCPz97reKofXLI+/TKjUx9QAT1kBKTx5HfYrjvI2xqWEdf1VpYa wpR2bbCNrLgzfU1ASJu2Yb1ObgQF6pk5RRt/I9NUHTWp3iXD1CdEsTRS5uPkvi/vFZ3VMeIZ AlT/GYAcMhIQ1EOcAY53eiWep3MJgq/O551m6z7s6kCl0STvhFFoVV8wcgILDswkB8RIMZP0 zI51iTSr+hlym4rs6e3qwcQmmpixU7XzHYXpAGaTUOJ6zv0pnr6blSdGtThM8o8K0cuIaLsY q+wRQ6RQ9r/3JxX9SsVUUOxaf6uREORmrbxPYTKOPpvPJEnRlPmUlcfenndVAOUMEubQO6ST Xiu1tEWepzuUa9Hxx+gx8vKIWQymOXj35nYO4dI+fEg/u9WkNpd227YRJ/Terck70h0htKsA TQP42Y2Q5zsgD2csxYBOjZ8UiP/QqbC+E65IVjHVZTd3RdJAm3N93krq49WAPyby6Mv6Fbch N1V4sOdVXOTC9WiuTatJzxDws1QySn3RdYVlnKswUs720/Dhz9ywbSaHNjGlebsruoPZ06ie SZmTTEmNGzS0cLl6Fa2Y0Z3Ap7snUIq86u62lb1TK5bPLi3dlbymvlZI/hPw0X0045z+jXhT eSCmdHsBE9LGhZJ8huPeZQ== Message-ID: <4d0770d5-b36d-2aa6-6543-fa394641475b@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 13:47:54 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180913160347.GC26329@gentoo.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HblmR3wwd56jT5sdfskSKaPcbB6m8nlPQ" X-Archives-Salt: ef5c08e2-615e-4b8e-9e30-32d51a7bde03 X-Archives-Hash: 54842dfb28f028a51eba7860024385d1 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --HblmR3wwd56jT5sdfskSKaPcbB6m8nlPQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="hToPV9fCWOpTgPdlu0vt0p9EGTcXzb5tQ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Richard Yao To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <4d0770d5-b36d-2aa6-6543-fa394641475b@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Changing policy about -Werror References: <20180909143221.21d784d02f51623e8c57c545@gentoo.org> <1536510660.863.9.camel@gentoo.org> <20180910074539.GA6512@baraddur.perfinion.com> <0d8b7f02-9c38-969c-413b-69d4dee6ca89@gentoo.org> <20180912085649.GA16516@baraddur.perfinion.com> <6c18c6bd-4cf3-dff6-2f20-c021063e01fa@gentoo.org> <20180913160347.GC26329@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <20180913160347.GC26329@gentoo.org> --hToPV9fCWOpTgPdlu0vt0p9EGTcXzb5tQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/13/2018 12:03 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote: > On 13-09-2018 07:36:09 -0400, Richard Yao wrote: >> >> >>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:55 PM, Thomas Deutschmann w= rote: >>> >>>> On 2018-09-12 16:50, Rich Freeman wrote: >>>> There is also the case where we want these warnings to block >>>> installation, because the risk of there being a problem is too great= =2E >>> >>> I really disagree with that. So many devs have already said multiple >>> times in this thread that "-Werror" is only turning existing warnings= >>> into fatal errors but "-Werror" itself doesn't add any new checks and= >>> more often requires "-O3" to be useful. >> The way that compilers work is that the warnings are generated in the = front end while the optimization level affects the backend. That means th= at -O3 has no effect on the code that does error generation. This remark = about -O3 being needed to make -Werror useful is just plain wrong.=20 >=20 > Huh? -O3 enables more checks, which can generate more warnings. -O3 > isn't "needed", but if upstream is so interested in clean and correct > code, they should've fixed all warnings in the first place and thus > enabled all of them. That wasn't how I read this: > Also, consider that for -Werror to be "better", you also need -O3 in order to activate the "proper" compiler checks like "variable set but never used" ones. But I'll accept that I misunderstood. > In fact, I expect every sane upstream to use "-O3 > -Wall -Werror" in one of their automated builds. Not that this catches= > anything useful on x86{,_64} when there is for instance use of signed > and unsigned char types, so it isn't conclusive. >=20 > The whole point in here is that -Werror doesn't add much if you care. > The whole point why it is not desired in Gentoo is that users don't > necessarily are developers, or even interested in fixing warnings -- > regardless whether they point to real problems or not. >=20 > If there are real problems in a package (exposed by a compiler or not) > then this should ideally stand out during ~arch testing, or even before= > when the Gentoo maintainer examines the build (might even use -Werror > for his own purposes). If such code ends up in stable arch we just mad= e > a stabilisation mistake, or got royally messed up by upstream, dependin= g > how you look at it. >=20 > Fabian >=20 --hToPV9fCWOpTgPdlu0vt0p9EGTcXzb5tQ-- --HblmR3wwd56jT5sdfskSKaPcbB6m8nlPQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEErwOv9RRoojY8ouC1/btjJpNedloFAlub9EoACgkQ/btjJpNe dlo+9w//U9HqhhKPBXa6Oa8jt2pOjixWuKA5bZ+NuZYg6Oxe7VgfOy5Fys5N0/GB eIxik8LXjmj/g7k27rINWxf82BUS0ZKi6c8eSHlOScj4DmeklbV/vFUfZ7TJwW6N OIs9ME3YDZpQRjPGwZn+C3/8104KTR1btyY3CqidaEM9Xu8GkMt+6uGznz5ZOsNg IRwEARYgpOqP8MCYlk1+BohU8Im6f+nCE2JA5UK2nn0UoajD8YUpsgfppYqV24m4 ZnkoKsjMhqZm+pC8g3GBNxy8JGTwEfL3Snsi+v6iX6ayZ3smRl5er608M45LhoQe fbENkpeUhrIBUO1LupDaiOE2Tz5w+xuV2Bvz+hE4GwUL5CvGw1+dsTbVBjESxxut 3U1WAMqUMHgOo99D1RHY5wegIGvhAhHI6aLKyGsHFsk2CglN8MTczs/7AjiNBS3B EhonAV2ir8bB67WtszFCPf3WrkPetBoZeWVq2CcMYlPB+LloO4KCYxByDhDJgBjY JY6SVHlwDCEc0J2hcQW8ynsPV3sdkukkeo+4uFgLYBy+Puz9N+0fXGEz3jrO77u1 EXLfbEH27ZTn0BeYTrkRimH/nb9mqR74VkeOdW4qT1Om4y1PECaPQqB6FjubJl3S RSKLoN9E/h3mAGViU6Nf82RF1mDN0bLLBGb75v98uKLCrwrLyEo= =wxfU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HblmR3wwd56jT5sdfskSKaPcbB6m8nlPQ--