From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SSHqE-0004KZ-Tm for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 01:06:51 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CEAA5E077A; Thu, 10 May 2012 01:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4C2E07C0 for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 01:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (unknown [180.158.42.128]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E94221B400A for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 01:05:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FAB1524.2040605@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 09:08:52 +0800 From: Patrick Lauer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120325 Thunderbird/11.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Tightly-coupled core distro [was: Council meeting summary for 3 April 2012] References: <4F85E21C.4060106@gentoo.org> <20120423012540.GA2130@waltdnes.org> <20120505010529.GD22763@kroah.com> <20120509183203.GA27545@kroah.com> <20120509223630.GA29213@kroah.com> In-Reply-To: <20120509223630.GA29213@kroah.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: b5eae1d4-8268-4915-83ad-5c26d5b6b813 X-Archives-Hash: 9ce2e69afa9e6f5fa3fbf9642af94762 On 05/10/12 06:36, Greg KH wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 08:51:37PM +0200, Fabio Erculiani wrote: >> I foresee a new udev fork then. > Please feel free to do so, the code has been open since the first day I > created it. > > Remember, forks are good, there's nothing wrong with them, I strongly > encourage people to do them if they wish to, it benefits everyone > involved. Forks are often unnecessary. Now instead of working on something useful I get to spend my time reverting to previous behaviour, just so I can have a working solution instead of a shiny one. Are we really doing so well that we can just rewrite everything instead of maybe, for once, have things boring predictable and bugfree? I mean ... things were going so well. Machines Just Booted Every TIme. And now - UEFI is glitching all over the place, the GPT-aware bootloaders have config files with insane complexity and are exquisitely buggy, and someone thought making the init system exciting would just make life oh so much better. Result: I can't get more than a blinking cursor out of some machines without resorting to Dirty Hacks I would really prefer not to even consider. Seriously. I don't have time for these games. Stop breaking stuff! > >> If udev is going to end up like avahi is, this is *highly* probable. > That's an odd transition... Same people involved, same mentality - and we don't want to be standing on the sides saying "Told you so" again. Gets boring. > >> With "avahi is ..." I actually mean, one single tarball blob depending >> on the whole world and its solar system and galaxy. > Hyperbole, how nice :( > >> Please stop throwing lennartware at people. FailAudio has been enough, thanks. > The use of these terms is both rude and totally uncalled for. You > should be ashamed of yourself. It's reactive. I've been called stupid, conservative, behind the times, user of obsolete software that will go the way of the dinosaurs. Why should we be ashamed of not agreeing with these funny pranksters? > > Seriously, that's unacceptable behavior from anyone. Then make it stop? :) > > No one forces you to use any of this software if you do not want to. Yeah, I can just stop updating. Sounds like a solution to all problems ;) > There are lots of other operating systems out there, feel free to switch > to them if you do not like the way this one is working out, no one is > stopping you. But for you to disparage someone who has given immense > bodies of work to the community, and you, for free, is horrible behavior > and needs to stop right now. Goes both ways. We're here because of Freedom, in various flavours. Freedom to copy things around and use for free. Freedom to swap out one part and use another. Freedom to break things badly. So why would I give up my freedom to tinker just because someone else is writing more code than I do? And I still have the freedom to complain all day long about undesigned stuff people try to force on me. Hey, you even have the freedom to complain about my complaining. Either way, I hope I can continue using Free Linux for a while and not be forced to use random things that are silly. I'd have expected you to support that. Take care, Patrick