Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: About suggesting to create a separate partition for portage tree in handbook

[Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>]

Duncan wrote:
> Dale posted on Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:35:40 -0500 as excerpted:
> 
>> Joshua Saddler wrote:

> Agreed, tho ACTUALLY having the documentation available, AND LINKING to 
> it in the handbook ("For an in-depth discussion, read..."), would be a 
> good thing.
> 
>> Well, way back when I first installed Gentoo, I actually read some
>> before I even started.  I learned through all that reading that /,
>> /boot, /home, /usr, /usr/portage and /var are best on their own
>> partition.  Each of those are for different reasons.
> 
> Same here.  It's a bit of a point of pride for me that before I even had 
> my own gentoo system installed (some problem due to my wanting posix 
> threading, then relatively new to Linux, over Linux threads; didn't work 
> for me with 2004.0, worked great with 2004.1), I had read the handbook, 
> etc, and was replying on the lists to questions from folks who obviously 
> hadn't read up...


I started with 1.4.  Dang I'm getting old.  It's one reason I would hate
to leave Gentoo.


> 
> But I already had a good idea what I wanted my partition layout to look 
> like based on my Mandrake experience.  The questions I needed to ask, 
> because they were NOT covered in the manual (or anywhere else in the 
> documentation I could find at the time), and because they were self-
> evidently going to have rather different answers on gentoo than on 
> mandrake, were things like:
> 
> Just how big IS the portage tree?
> 
> What about the package tree?
> 
> What about the sources tree?


I think I found that info somewhere before I installed.  Plus, one could
ask someone on IRC too.  If they have it on a separate partition, the
results of df would be good enough and quick.


> 
> After a couple partition reorganizations, I ended up with sources inside 
> the portage tree, but packages on its own partition, making it easier to 
> keep packages backed up, something the portage tree and sources don't 
> need as the net's a far more sufficient backup for them than I could ever 
> manage locally.
> 
> 
> For years I've thought that a bit more emphasis should be placed on 
> FEATURES=binpkg, given the many ways it can save your ass and/or make 
> troubleshooting a current version issue far easier.  And while I agree 
> that the installation section of the handbook, in any case, isn't the 
> place for complex discussion of the many system partitioning schemes and 
> their positives/negatives, information such as the above, exactly what 
> sort of realistic sizes can be expected for the portage tree itself, for 
> sources, and for binpkgs (if the feature is enabled), should be covered.
> 
> That's because most gentoo users have at least some experience on other 
> distros before they come to gentoo, and thus likely already have a 
> preferred partitioning setup... if they care about it at all.  All they 
> really need is information about the relative sizes of gentoo-specific 
> features, the ebuild tree, sources, and binpkgs, and perhaps a bit better 
> coverage of the binpkgs option (which I'd simply link-punt in the install 
> section as well, but cover it a bit better under the working with portage 
> section, with the install-section link pointing there).
> 
>> The root partition is obvious, I would hope anyway.  ;-)  The boot
>> partitions comes in handy if you don't automount it or have more than
>> one distro installed.  Home is obvious.  People recommended /usr because
>> it could a) be mounted read only and b)  it can be enlarged if needed
>> since it tends to grow a lot.  Portage since it is tons of small files
>> and tends to fragment a lot.  The var partition is so that if some error
>> message repeats itself overnight and fills up the partition it at least
>> doesn't lock up the whole system.  I actually had this one happen to me
>> once.  For some reason, even logrotate didn't catch it, tar up and
>> delete the old ones.  I woke up to a mess that only going to single user
>> would fix.  The best thing I did was to have /var on its own partition.
> 
> FWIW, that's /var/log on it's own partition here, for exactly the reason 
> you mention.  But /var itself is on rootfs here, these days.


That would work too.  At the time, /var was recommended.


> 
>> When people are planning to install Gentoo and they have not done at
>> least some research, I think they should get to keep the pieces.
>> Installing Gentoo is not something to do on a whim.  It should be
>> planned and thought through even if the person is completely new to
>> Gentoo.  I read up for at least a month before ever even starting.
> 
> Again agreed,
> 
> But really, to some degree it's something that's only learned from 
> experience.  If anything, what I'd suggest for the installation manual 
> partitioning section would be a variant on the programmer's dictum:
> 
> "Plan to throw one away, because you're either going to end up doing it 
> anyway after you make your mistakes and figure out the way you /should/ 
> have done it, or putting up with a sub-optimum setup if you don't throw 
> one away, and planning for it from the beginning will make the process 
> easier when the time comes."
> 
> I know I've gone thru several partition layout iterations here, before I 
> came up with something very close to what I'd consider optimal... that 
> has stayed that way for several years.
> 
> =:^)


If someone told me they was going to do a install similar to mine,
without all the udev, init thingy and /usr confusion, I would give a lot
of info but also recommend this.  Install onto a spare drive then run du
on /usr, /var and such.  Take that information and create partitions on
the permanant OS drive then copy the install over.  That way you have
the best possible info based on your own install and what you plan to use.

They would then have a nice and neat system.  If they use LVM, they can
even enlarge/shrink things as needed.  This could be very true
considering the talk of moving portage files around.  Sounds like /var
may be about to grow.


> 
>> I agree with having a simple manual for the folks that want to install
>> just to look and then have a separate manual, wiki even, for more
>> serious set ups.  This can include things like RAID, LVM and having more
>> than a couple partitions.  Of course, Gentoo is almost endless in
>> options.
> 
> Agreed.  The only thing I'd add would be that the simple installation 
> should have "for more information" type links to the more complex 
> discussions of each step/decision, at the appropriate place.  Then people 
> like Dale and I will read them, and but they'll be clearly marked "for 
> more information" or similar, so those uninterested in that sort of 
> discussion can easily skip it. =:^)
> 


No problem there.  If folks could put info on a wiki, it would be nice.
 Example, 'I have KDE, Fluxbox, and this is the space required  xxxx
Gbs.'  Or 'I have Fluxbox and apache installed and I use xxxxGbs.'  Then
list what /usr, /var and others are in Gbs.  That would save some people
from having to redo their drives.  Let the docs point to that for the
ones interested.

What a wish list.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
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