From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RQ5PS-0003PT-6a for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:53:50 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A68E321C06C; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:53:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D18821C04A for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:53:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (e178075069.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.178.75.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: chithanh) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 920561B401D for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:53:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EC19BC9.6000608@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:52:57 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2jDrS1UaGFuaCBDaHJpc3RvcGhlciBOZ3V54buFbg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111031 Firefox/7.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.4.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: have portage be quiet by default References: <4EB4FA98.3080201@gentoo.org> <4EBD42EE.4060104@gentoo.org> <4EBEF208.5060500@gentoo.org> <201111121840.16686.vapier@gentoo.org> <4EBFBA75.3030500@gentoo.org> <1321188262-sup-4513@raeviah> <4EC0141E.2030900@gentoo.org> <4EC10B5D.3070204@gmail.com> <4EC14E12.2070703@gentoo.org> <4EC15219.70402@gmail.com> <4EC158FF.7090609@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4EC158FF.7090609@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4a1pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: e849cd67-b4c5-4f74-9496-467950df8837 X-Archives-Hash: 03b6a00a49d5ba20e0721bf8cff482e1 Zac Medico schrieb: > On 11/14/2011 09:38 AM, Dale wrote: >> As I type: >> >> emerge should show build output by default (unless --quiet-build=3Dy) = 42% >> >> So far that's the winner. As I posted earlier, people expect things t= o >> work like they have always worked. I say that as a user. >=20 > As I've explained in my post to that forum thread [1], you have to > factor in the "silent majority" that welcomes the change and does not > express it publicly. A forumor mailing list thread tends to attract a > "vocal minority", which tends to bias the discussion (or voting results= ) > in way that does not give a fair statistical representation of the > gentoo population as a whole (it excludes the "silent majority"). It's > part of human nature that those who are displeased with the changed mor= e > likely to speak up than those who welcome the change. For the record, I think as lead developer zmedico should have the final word over what is default in portage, and if arguments or compromise proposals fail to convince him otherwise, then it shall be as he decides. That being said, please keep the crap out of this discussion. Especially the claim that the majority of users welcome this change. You have no data to back this up, other than selective perception =C3=A0 la "in 14 ho= urs after proposing this change, no dissenting opinion was posted to gentoo-dev". In fact, the data which was collected so far suggests otherwise. The vocal minority argument is just made up. A vocal minority can push or oppose changes. If you think that the change is better for users, and they just need time to adjust, then be a man and stand to your opinion. Don't hide it behind such phony claims. Best regards, Ch=C3=AD-Thanh Christopher Nguy=E1=BB=85n