From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RPac7-0003YC-2n for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:00:51 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C290E21C035; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:00:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D161621C02B for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:00:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.22] (p548D32B6.dip.t-dialin.net [84.141.50.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tommy) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D9631B4009 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:00:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EBFCD5D.3080807@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:59:57 +0100 From: Thomas Sachau User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111003 Firefox/7.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.4.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] have portage be quiet by default References: <4EB4FA98.3080201@gentoo.org> <4EBD42EE.4060104@gentoo.org> <4EBEF208.5060500@gentoo.org> <201111121840.16686.vapier@gentoo.org> <4EBFBA75.3030500@gentoo.org> <1321188262-sup-4513@raeviah> In-Reply-To: <1321188262-sup-4513@raeviah> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4a1pre OpenPGP: id=211CA2D4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig10AB5CE09DB3F9756F798C58" X-Archives-Salt: a3419669-335e-4fc4-b910-9186950f53ca X-Archives-Hash: 035baf150a4102b75524869b2b5b8647 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig10AB5CE09DB3F9756F798C58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amadeusz =C5=BBo=C5=82nowski schrieb: > Excerpts from Thomas Sachau's message of 2011-11-13 13:39:17 +0100: >> This can be argued from either side, if the default is verbose, you >> can make it quiet in the default emerge opts and the other way round. >> So this is no argument for or against default quiet build in my eyes. >=20 > Not every user studies manpages of every program they use. Making > --quiet-build=3Dy default is a *benefit* for people who don't care much= =2E > If somebody cares about the output probably will care to read the > manpage how to make it verbose. How many emerge users know that option= ? How is that an argument for default quiet build? It is exactly the same a= rgument against default quiet build. If someone does not care, he does not care about the output = being verbose or not, so no need to change a default for him. And what does a number of users knowing about an option have to do with a= default setting? >=20 >=20 >> As already said, it is nice to see, where a build hangs, when some >> specific task does take longer and until now, it was easy to see, just= >> watch the output. With the new default, you cannot say, what it does, >> where it may be or if there are many things or just one line taking >> much time. And you additionally have to go to the build.log manually >> to actually see something. >=20 > Build output tells almost nothing about the progress (except of cmake).= > Many packages compile in few minutes on average machine. I hardly ever= > experience hangs and if - it's usually for boost. For those few > packages it's no harm to check build.log. You expect people to manually check the build.log just to see, where it h= angs? I prefer checking the console, there i can see it directly and dont have to check for the path = of the current build.log and then have to additionally open it manually. So your "no harm" is plai= n wrong, since it takes me more time for doing the same thing as before, while i still see no benefi= t for the change of the default. >=20 > But --quiet-build=3Dy actually gives more useful and handy info: what i= s > a total progress. Which user cares about which module is actually bein= g > compiled? He/she cares more which package out of total is being > compiled at the moment. If someone does not care about the current state of a compile, he wont ca= re about the total state either. Beside the point, that you can see the total state in the termina= l bar (i hope, i got the right name for that thing). --------------enig10AB5CE09DB3F9756F798C58 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iJwEAQECAAYFAk6/zWIACgkQG7kqcTWJkGcMmAQAtkgFRwJ8WWrFiz4DNTGckrzf LCTRRoClGWllvl7ce7JpK0A2QkP++8UUCB53sdjIlSr7rIWMGp3u8LfCyTJYiVau bTkyGuPJ2R74H+yZoifNsrfIcnylKjA6ijuj34rZu81c/pSTSH9jthA0R/W/Y+mK LolHQkzPlwhTiZfCepU= =uTVk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig10AB5CE09DB3F9756F798C58--