From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OOw5n-0005pP-Gr for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:07:59 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 78A60E0BF6; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:07:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450B0E0C10 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:07:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.2.10] (unknown [213.13.202.55]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B58D1B4064 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:07:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4C1904DD.4010701@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:07:41 +0200 From: Angelo Arrifano Organization: Gentoo Linux Foundation User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100419 Lightning/1.0b2pre Thunderbird/3.0.4 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo References: <4C184607.5080907@gentoo.org> <4C18FE36.7040700@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4C18FE36.7040700@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 43dae5b5-06c0-41f6-89b4-aa67837b8133 X-Archives-Hash: 0d61f8c44a5acbb876e2c824534d48b5 On 16-06-2010 18:39, "Pawe=C5=82 Hajdan, Jr." wrote: > On 6/16/10 5:33 AM, Sebastian Pipping wrote: >> As I have heard there are people not joining Gentoo because the >> atmosphere in Gentoo is lacking respect and empathy. You are not the only one hearing that. If we jump over our own fences, that will be much more visible. >=20 > This is really sad. And the kind of people who value that often make > good developers if they also have good technical skills. >=20 >> I have searched a few places for rules on tone, >=20 > I believe one can't solve this problem by using rules. >=20 >> - With these Code of Conduct rules in place how come DevRel >> is not publicly reminding of these rules where necessary? >=20 > I think the initiative is on the offended person's side. If a developer > is being aggressive and needlessly argumentative towards other people, > that's clearly a misconduct. Similarly for aggressive users. >=20 >> Could it be we expect perfection from each other instead seeking to >> understand and complement each other? >=20 > That might be a part of it. >=20 >> What can we do to make Gentoo a friendlier community? >=20 > We need leadership. I remember very well when the leader of one of the > Gentoo projects I participate in reminded me to always say "thanks" to > people who are helping us on Bugzilla. A small thing, but wasn't he rig= ht? Damn right. Motivation is something that is very easy to lose. If we developers don't show users that we appreciate their contributions (even when we don't), we risk losing potential contributions in the future. I've seen some bugs [sorry no references right now] where some developers point out facts in a *very* aggressive way. Even when what they have to say is true, they will scare away people. Is this what we wa= nt? I understand there are a lot of factors that leads into a aggressive response: private life, karma, the persistence of people doing things *wrong*, etc.. we are humans after all. But if such behavior is the rule instead of the exception, then I believe something is wrong and devrel should be brought into attention. - Angelo >=20 > I believe it's the project leaders and the Council who ultimately set > the tone. >=20 > Pawe=C5=82 >=20