From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OKvdt-0000oJ-8N for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 15:50:37 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5B6BE0A5B; Sat, 5 Jun 2010 15:50:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE04EE09F9 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2010 15:50:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.22] (p4FDF2123.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.223.33.35]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3EF61B4013; Sat, 5 Jun 2010 15:49:52 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4C0A720C.20300@gentoo.org> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 17:49:32 +0200 From: Thomas Sachau Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org CC: Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis , devrel@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Actions of python team, especially Arfrever wrt python eclass and python-3* References: <4BFE82C3.2050400@gentoo.org> <201006051644.20150.Arfrever@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <201006051644.20150.Arfrever@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: id=211CA2D4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig963AC77E2CBE3AD7F8522906" X-Archives-Salt: c260153e-7ded-4a5f-8ccb-46e38bcb0a85 X-Archives-Hash: 537d53495f5660bf851b35536cab42fb This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig963AC77E2CBE3AD7F8522906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 05.06.2010 16:43, schrieb Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis: > 2010-05-27 16:33:39 Thomas Sachau napisa=C5=82(a): >> Hi together, >> >> since i am not able to get any real argument or even discussion on IRC= nor on this mailing list from >> Arfrever (main person behind those changes), i would like to raise the= following points now on this >> mailing list as told on IRC, so he gets the chance to answer those poi= nts and to clear the issues: >> >> -major changes to python eclasses have been done without peer review o= n this mailing list. >=20 > There weren't any major changes in python.eclass in last months. In r1.= 96:r1.100 I committed a set of minor changes. > Some code was moved, which might cause false impression that there were= some major changes: > - "MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS" section (with 8 functions) was moved to bef= ore "FUNCTIONS FOR PACKAGES SUPPORTING > INSTALLATION FOR MULTIPLE PYTHON ABIS" section. > - python_pkg_setup() function was moved to "MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS" se= ction. > - A part of python_mod_cleanup() function was split to _python_clean_co= mpiled_modules() function. > python_mod_cleanup() now calls _python_clean_compiled_modules(). > - 2 loops in python_mod_optimize() were divided and some code was reind= ented. You dont call the support for multiple python slots a "major change"? I d= id not see any RFC about your idea, concept or implementation. Even when other people, after the implementation was done, tried to talk = with you about your way and pointing out other possible ways, which would be less complex (e.g. the "= ruby way" or implementation on package manager side), you did not listen or refused to accept them be= cause some optional additional feature might not work with that way. >=20 >> This includes pulling in python-3* versions >=20 > It's untruth. python.eclass or distutils.eclass don't enforce any parti= cular version of Python. If any package does inherit python or distutils eclass, then those eclass= es do pull in "dev-lang/python", which is unversioned, so it will always pull in the la= test version, in this case python-3*. You could change this, so it allows any major installed slot t= o satisfy the python dependency. Additionally, your implementation pulls in python-3* for packages, which = support multiple versions of python, but would work fine with the already installed python-2* versi= on. This behaviour might be fine, when one could actually use python-3* as main version, but currentl= y you pull in an unneeded and unused python slot. And your current implementation requires the use of another tool, python-= updater, to maintain python related ebuilds, since your current implementation does not allow the pac= kage manager to see the needed/used dependencies and to (re)compile the packages as needed. >=20 >> -A news item, which is only shown, once python-3* is installed. >> >> It is only shown _after_ installation of python-3. >=20 > You might file an enhancement request for Portage to show news items be= fore installation. Huh? Your news item explicitly requires the installation of python-3, bef= ore it is shown. This has nothing to do with the package manager, it is, what you define in your ne= ws item. >=20 >> Beside those points, one additional main issue is, that i and others d= ont seem to be able to have a >> discussion with Arfrever about this topics. >=20 > I'm answering to new (unanswered), rational arguments about these topic= s. >=20 >> He says, he has no time for it or says, that he already had shown argu= ments, but cannot show >> any evidence or just stops responding without any note. >=20 > There had been multiple threads about Python 3. Read e-mails written by= me or Dirkjan Ochtman in the following threads: > http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_115ce6fa1a09de286bf58db12df46= 3c6.xml > http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_814e67764c17f88bde94f22e9a392= e4f.xml > http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_2591c1b9a7e7b72383d3841bc05dc= 417.xml I did read the threads about python-3, but i still dont see any real argu= ment, why you want everyone to install python-3*, also it is not required, not needed and not used. A= lso, you have written, that the python team does not suggest to mask python-3, but did not give any r= eason for that. So could you do that now? --=20 Thomas Sachau Gentoo Linux Developer --------------enig963AC77E2CBE3AD7F8522906 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) iJwEAQEKAAYFAkwKchIACgkQG7kqcTWJkGesfwP/ZyaX1HGx/eczPwg8O2CinV5v 4bOFzEoapCyD6+2mtxMbwZW10grmHzJ7amGqb+pMG7s0IQ1yo2pGreBKher5XZ4r 20JZ37NWuT0BGW+N5LQzGTO7RVxt7HNxfqzIIEgo/iu6vrF9LZP5lLkGNUyc0lsk xboO3hXSyLQKNWf/jWU= =k38V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig963AC77E2CBE3AD7F8522906--