[gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi.

Following Petteri's thread last month about RESOLVED LATER and given a
issue that has been reported to User Relations about the "ab"use of the
VERIFIED status in Bugzilla, I'd like to get some feedback from fellow
developers.
We have a user that has been marking resolved bugs as verified following
his actions on other bugzilla(s) and he quotes the Bugzilla Docs[1] to
explain his actions. Some developers have become upset because of the
"spam" email that action causes.
It seems to me the reason those developers got upset is that they don't
value the VERIFIED status so I wonder if anyone uses that status or if
we should just drop it. If possible and useful, would we like to
restrict the VERIFIED status change to a specific group of people?
Please share your thoughts on this so we can decide how to act on this case.


 [1] - http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.4/en/html/lifecycle.html

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=bZ0I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Fabian Groffen]

On 14-05-2010 12:45:54 +0000, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> Following Petteri's thread last month about RESOLVED LATER and given a
> issue that has been reported to User Relations about the "ab"use of the
> VERIFIED status in Bugzilla, I'd like to get some feedback from fellow
> developers.
> We have a user that has been marking resolved bugs as verified following
> his actions on other bugzilla(s) and he quotes the Bugzilla Docs[1] to
> explain his actions. Some developers have become upset because of the
> "spam" email that action causes.
> It seems to me the reason those developers got upset is that they don't
> value the VERIFIED status so I wonder if anyone uses that status or if
> we should just drop it. If possible and useful, would we like to
> restrict the VERIFIED status change to a specific group of people?
> Please share your thoughts on this so we can decide how to act on this case.

I'm all for removing it from the workflow.  I take a opportunistic
approach, assuming that the reporter (or someone else with the same
problem) will reopen the bug if it turns out a fix wasn't good enough or
something.


>  [1] - http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.4/en/html/lifecycle.html

-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Samuli Suominen]

On 05/14/2010 03:45 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Following Petteri's thread last month about RESOLVED LATER and given a
> issue that has been reported to User Relations about the "ab"use of the
> VERIFIED status in Bugzilla, I'd like to get some feedback from fellow
> developers.
> We have a user that has been marking resolved bugs as verified following
> his actions on other bugzilla(s) and he quotes the Bugzilla Docs[1] to
> explain his actions. Some developers have become upset because of the
> "spam" email that action causes.
> It seems to me the reason those developers got upset is that they don't
> value the VERIFIED status so I wonder if anyone uses that status or if
> we should just drop it. If possible and useful, would we like to
> restrict the VERIFIED status change to a specific group of people?
> Please share your thoughts on this so we can decide how to act on this case.

I'd like to see the whole thing go away. It's this one user I've pretty
much ever seen using it. And he's using it to change "RESOLVED" status
to "VERIFIED" on e.g. removal bugs, stabilization bugs, keywording bugs...

Now I try to read the bugmail even for old removed packages by e.g.
treecleaners, there actually might be something useful, like a comment
that the project got resurrected and could be restored to portage.

But then I just find every second mail to be these "VERIFIED" changes...
don't know about you... but to me, it's very frustrating.

Well, it wouldn't be so frustrating if the user just stopped doing it,
but he doesn't... even when asked. So that adds up to my frustration a
bit here.

So far I've found 2 hacks that could serve the purpose:

I could procmail all mail from this one user to spam folder, but that
just solves it for this one time, only for me, and only for the one
users actions. Also i'd be missing any useful mails from him. So that
doesn't sound like a solution.

Or...

Then I could disable the whole mail sending of that resolution change
from bugzilla's settings, but I couldn't find a way to fine-grain in a
way so only "VERIFIED" mails get ignored. So no solution there either.

> 
> 
>  [1] - http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.4/en/html/lifecycle.html
> 

Looks nice on paper if you put it like that, but not really how it's
working for us in reality.

(Sorry for any spelling errors, I hope my message got a across)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Matti Bickel]

On 05/14/2010 03:34 PM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> I'd like to see the whole thing go away. It's this one user I've pretty
> much ever seen using it. And he's using it to change "RESOLVED" status
> to "VERIFIED" on e.g. removal bugs, stabilization bugs, keywording bugs...

cleanup++

>>  [1] - http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.4/en/html/lifecycle.html
> Looks nice on paper if you put it like that, but not really how it's
> working for us in reality.

From my work on b.g.o: I use a simplified version of this, shown at:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~mabi/gentooBzLifecycle.png

Basically three states less and a NEEDINFO resolution added. That's all
I ever touched in the years.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

["Paweł Hajdan, Jr."]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1069 bytes --]

On 5/14/10 3:54 PM, Matti Bickel wrote:
>>From my work on b.g.o: I use a simplified version of this, shown at:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~mabi/gentooBzLifecycle.png

Yeah, I think the linked diagram really reflects the reality, much
better than the "official" one. I'm in favor of removing the "Verified"
resolution to clean things up.

I haven't seen a project where the "Verified" status would be useful.
Generally the reporters re-open their bugs if they are not satisfied.

Also, for many classes of bugs verification gives absolutely no
benefits, e.g. keywording, stabilization, etc.

If we want to keep "Verified", then in my opinion some group should be
created to verify bugs consistently. If it's just one user doing it, I
see no benefits, and only background noise.

Note: maybe that user would like to help in the bugzilla in a way we'd
all agree to be useful. For example wrangling bugs (assigning to right
owners, getting more info, etc). Please make sure not to discourage him
from contributing more by too harsh comments.

Paweł


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 195 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Richard Freeman]

On 05/14/2010 09:34 AM, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> I'd like to see the whole thing go away. It's this one user I've pretty
> much ever seen using it. And he's using it to change "RESOLVED" status
> to "VERIFIED" on e.g. removal bugs, stabilization bugs, keywording bugs...

I think that VERIFIED could have a place in a serious quality management 
system that closes the loop on every change.  If we had a test branch 
and a release branch the VERIFIED might be the glue that moves patches 
from one to the other.

However, we don't have anything like this in place right now, and so 
this is really just spam.  Having the extra state does no good without 
all the processes that go with it.

Would Gentoo have a higher level of quality if we did some CMM-5 
practices like these?  Absolutely!  Would it struggle to keep up with 
Debian Stable?  Absolutely!   I don't think we really have the resources 
to pull off something like this.  As it is we struggle with the current 
~arch/arch system.

I'd get rid of it...

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Joshua Saddler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 14 May 2010 12:45:54 +0000
"Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto" <jmbsvicetto@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Following Petteri's thread last month about RESOLVED LATER and given a
> issue that has been reported to User Relations about the "ab"use of the
> VERIFIED status in Bugzilla, I'd like to get some feedback from fellow
> developers.
> We have a user that has been marking resolved bugs as verified following
> his actions on other bugzilla(s) and he quotes the Bugzilla Docs[1] to
> explain his actions. Some developers have become upset because of the
> "spam" email that action causes.
> It seems to me the reason those developers got upset is that they don't
> value the VERIFIED status so I wonder if anyone uses that status or if
> we should just drop it. If possible and useful, would we like to
> restrict the VERIFIED status change to a specific group of people?
> Please share your thoughts on this so we can decide how to act on this case.

Punt VERIFIED. It's useless for documentation and for everything else I do.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkvtc8wACgkQxPWMzpKk6kOD2wCgqr+brRXJljXR+wDk8+fOETUG
sQQAn3gJVt3rclCmXyqHfwu/D4fBgFkG
=7I70
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] Does anyone use the VERIFIED status in bugzilla?

[Rémi Cardona]

Le 14/05/2010 14:45, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto a écrit :
> Please share your thoughts on this so we can decide how to act on this case.

X11 team doesn't use it. While some of our users do come back and close
bugs as VERIFIED every now and then, it just doesn't mean anything in
the team's workflow.

As far as we're concerned, we could just prune it.

Cheers,

Rémi