From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1O0b2P-0000TQ-St for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:47:54 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B29BAE072D; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:47:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82322E075E for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:47:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.130.46.197] (qiv5.kyla.fi [82.130.46.197]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE8D1B402C for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:47:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4BC08181.6020305@gentoo.org> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 16:47:45 +0300 From: =?UTF-8?B?UGV0dGVyaSBSw6R0eQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; fi; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090916 Thunderbird/2.0.0.23 Mnenhy/0.7.6.666 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Council meeting 19 April 2010 References: <19388.19166.779165.480708@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: id=B8E4ECF0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig870A21D6E8E4CBEFFD34275A" X-Archives-Salt: e8c5dd61-81ed-4f7b-bdd9-1b0654ca2d22 X-Archives-Hash: 571617b7d25675134db86ddfe30e3aa5 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig870A21D6E8E4CBEFFD34275A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 04/09/2010 05:51 PM, Dror Levin wrote: > On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 21:05, Denis Dupeyron wrote= : >> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ben de Groot wrot= e: >>> So all I'm asking is to do your job and make decisions on issues that= >>> affect all of Gentoo. The issues I brought up are wider than a single= >>> individual project. >> >> And almost 100% of the time this needs to run through a GLEP, which is= >> the case here. Then the council will do all the things you've pasted >> from GLEP 39 >=20 > I thought the council was a body that should be capable of action, not > merely one that gives a stamp of approval for stuff other people do. > Was I wrong? >=20 It's capable of action if the members want to take it. > Reading all your manifestos from the elections shows you all had > things you wanted to do, things you wanted to change (git migration, > forming a group of experts to discuss technical issues, QA > propagation, just to name a few). Where did all that go to? If all the > council is currently able to do is get everybody involved in > bureaucracy (e.g. writing GLEPs for centralizing documentation instead > of putting a page full of links) just so it could meet once a month to > decide on bugzilla resolutions, then something is wrong. >=20 Let's see my manifesto: - EAPIs: council is not the blocker - Meetings: there will be a web application most likely in GSoC > All council members not only volunteered for that position, but also > had other people voting for them. Didn't you do that so you could have > a larger influence? So you could make Gentoo better? How do you plan > to achieve that if you just wait for other people to do it? I don't > see why there is such strong opposition by your side to actually do > something, after all, that's what you're there for. >=20 I said in my manifesto that Gentoo is not my first priority so you get what you vote for :) >=20 > Ben raised some very painful issues which hurt Gentoo daily but are > not being addressed for a long time. The way I see it, the council's > job is to lead Gentoo, and that includes things that individual > members may not find interesting. These are global issues which are > under the council's responsibility. Gentoo's best interest should be > in mind, not personal interests, and so the council should strive to > achieve all those things so that Gentoo may benefit from it. That's > what leadership is, and that's what your job is. > Many of the points Ben raised are doable by any single developer who wants to do the work. Just show up with the code/patches. >=20 > Let's take redesigning the homepage as an example. Our website has the > same design since at least 2002, and to users it looks dead. This is > seriously hurting Gentoo, and its inability to fix the situation has > become a laughing stock. Clearly, Gentoo as a whole suffers and it's > the council's responsibility to address this issue. Now, I'm not > saying that council members should sit around all day playing with > CSS, but this issue should be one of their top priorities. Maybe ask > for users to help, reward a volunteer to do it with funds from the > foundation, heck maybe even pay some company to do it, but just do > something, even though you may not think dealing with this is > interesting, but a response like "if you want it then work on it and > make it happen" is unacceptable. >=20 Just petition the trustees to spend money on it. I guess Debian is dying too then: http://web.archive.org/web/20020124014701/http://www.debian.org/ Regards, Petteri --------------enig870A21D6E8E4CBEFFD34275A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJLwIGEAAoJEPeUsk245OzwMD4P/jQbPSCvvoNZeiwoc8V3uopX k9WyhMudK40rZt6NdGpEQ74TDmlnx+xD2u37fhycf7w5SFvvsAYUNo3vpKKFfEn4 r953GwCulqQ1QJWSM3RmzTfvEMD2ZNtswXj9s3aJDXYxaQBMm/dNGLaMh7wOkXLv Xwzy+ukxX0WTz9Ab3swEYDL8KxmY0JEzhZozi6C6zAWjCQb002o20OEOQDKw5cAM rfvwQWm33eg5k1u1UwBCj2d4MZnWJi5fTtNhVnLbyerDc+mhPi7q9melG16ueMBX 63nSTFDe6uSNCOzy2ApWrPOmUQE3kC1aYKtZBNaKibONJjQdScZM1EovFTH3zY+S II0P7HfN01NWs/Z8/xFLJvCQvtEAuOUnuPKnq5G3WNMv23PZrCF8n4xiT3MV1hyK oEaf1Yohs3H9fxjUuPYQbU5ZKaS/v7GVcchGM6dtxaWGhPju7WXbvNd3/Dnm5Uiv t5zzkJ4BwaaivCVVysWSieyLQsR4nv1ngaXy/GDkX4fJYls3jjClu+nCSSTTNBqi ahwt4lNii2PMiM1DK3c2z7qs/o9+E+ftdNlG8vorZba3NTADuVWagcd3+gAYNw+V DW222fLvbW3Mt6Hcg7uQQMdSvs7bD/ikP2F+ND4YbXGDu8B+VnXJRszBVIBe8x1y 6OE78z3qSLhu/F/EGqKv =5zqh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig870A21D6E8E4CBEFFD34275A--