From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NnNQa-0003rs-0r for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:38:12 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 25CE6E0C70; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 02:38:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net (vms173001pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00F1E0C39 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 02:38:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gw.thefreemanclan.net ([unknown] [96.245.54.140]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0KYS001ARFB11YG6@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:37:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.0.5] (rich.homedns.org [192.168.0.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gw.thefreemanclan.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 543B2175AA7A for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:37:49 -0500 (EST) Message-id: <4B906E7D.7010003@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:37:49 -0500 From: Richard Freeman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100215 Thunderbird/3.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps References: <4B9049A3.5020805@gmail.com> <201003050957.22890.mail@patrick-nagel.net> In-reply-to: <201003050957.22890.mail@patrick-nagel.net> Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 3fdf4c51-b026-4bc6-98e2-3865905ec2d4 X-Archives-Hash: a5adb494d20974cd90496c888c597e2b On 03/04/2010 08:57 PM, Patrick Nagel wrote: > Obviously, users who "re-install" Gentoo the way you do will have less > difficulties resolving a circular dependency than those who are just fo= llowing > the guide and getting their first Gentoo experience. I think that the cups issue is probably worth mentioning in the=20 Handbook. Whether it is there by default or not lots of people get=20 burned by it. A little advanced warning would help. I think that at the very least following the handbooks to the letter=20 should never lead to an error. I think that a good argument can be made for or against having cups in=20 the desktop profile - this might actually be the sort of thing a survey=20 would be useful to address. I think that is separate from the circular dependency issue. As long as=20 we have an unresolved circular dependency I think cups should be off the=20 list. However, I'd be the first to agree that this is a short-term=20 solution. The problem is that we only have two long-term solutions so far: 1. A smarter package manager that can work through these dependencies=20 automatically. 2. Splitting packages like poppler that have these issues. Both of these need effort to address. #1 requires PM work, and #2=20 requires an ongoing commitment to do more work to keep poppler working. Unless somebody can come up with a #3 at this point the most=20 constructive thing anybody can do is help out. A good place to start=20 would be to write up some patches to the handbook that clearly explain=20 how to deal with this problem. I'm not sure I agree with the poppler maintainers but they may have=20 reasons that aren't apparent to me and the fact is that it is a whole=20 lot easier to tell somebody how to maintain a package when I'm not the=20 one actually doing the work. Nothing gets results in FOSS like dirty=20 hands... Rich