From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nn0jM-0005yd-1G for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 02:24:04 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 54AD2E0C75; Thu, 4 Mar 2010 02:24:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from themis.wsgurus.com (themis.wsgurus.com [65.98.70.26]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078C4E0B96 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2010 02:23:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from adsl-70-253-170-117.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net ([70.253.170.117] helo=[192.168.1.240]) by themis.wsgurus.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nn0is-0002UK-1e for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:23:10 -0500 Message-ID: <4B8F19D2.1090703@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:24:18 -0600 From: Nathan Zachary User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100225 Thunderbird/3.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps References: <4B8C3438.90909@gentoo.org> <1267641936.26170.5.camel@localhost> <4B8EEE42.80306@gentoo.org> <4B8F1289.8040705@gmail.com> <4B8F1389.9040609@gentoo.org> <4B8F182E.6080207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B8F182E.6080207@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010900030807040608090706" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - themis.wsgurus.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gentoo.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Archives-Salt: b2d148bf-03cf-4368-9c2b-57acc9b71cd0 X-Archives-Hash: aff2b4d5e53900d85c1a9efaad571466 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010900030807040608090706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 03/03/10 20:17, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: >> I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is >> >>>>> to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't >>>>> think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result >>>>> cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to >>>>> agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they >>>>> need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a >>>>> desktop system. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and >>>> especially in the base profile. Many systems run desktop >>>> environments without needing printing support. As we advance further >>>> toward a paperless computing experience, the need for printing >>>> support becomes even less. And, as it is incredibly simple to add >>>> print capabilities by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf, >>>> that choice should be left to the user. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Nathan Zachary >>>> >>> One could argue the opposite as well. Adding -cups to make.conf is >>> just as easy. >>> >>> I'm one of those lowly users. >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> :-) :-) >>> >>> >> I think that the point is that it is better to have it disabled by >> default so that new users do not run into these circular dependencies >> upon their first installation. They can then add cups to their >> make.conf and emerge -avuDN world to get full printing support. >> >> Just as a sidebar, there is not a "lowly user." Your input is greatly >> important in all matters regarding Gentoo as you are a member of the >> userbase. It's your operating system too! :) >> >> Regards, >> Nathan Zachary >> >> > > Let just think of it this way. I have to reinstall say from a dead > hard drive. I have copies of my make.conf and world file. I install > my new drive, download the tarball and unpack it. I copy over > make.conf and world. Naturally cups will be enabled. Then I sync and > start to update. Isn't that circular dependency still going to be > there? After all, this is how I install Gentoo even if from scratch. > I set my USE line before I start to emerge or update. > > It seems to me, in my situation, this would not solve much. Maybe I > am incorrect in that. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > I believe the circular dependency is solved if one emerges gtk+ (and possibly poppler?) without CUPS support, and then goes back and emerges everything with CUPS. Regards, Nathan Zachary --------------010900030807040608090706 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/03/10 20:17, Dale wrote:
chrome:= //messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is
=C2=A0=C2=A0
to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
desktop system.

Cheers,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and
especially in the base profile.=C2=A0 Many systems run desktop
environments without needing printing support.=C2=A0 As we advance furthe= r
toward a paperless computing experience, the need for printing
support becomes even less.=C2=A0 And, as it is incredibly simple to add
print capabilities by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf,
that choice should be left to the user.

Regards,
Nathan Zachary
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
One could argue the opposite as well.=C2=A0 Adding -cups to make.conf is
just as easy.

I'm one of those lowly users.

Dale

:-)=C2=A0 :-)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
I think that the point is that it is better to have it disabled by
default so that new users do not run into these circular dependencies
upon their first installation.=C2=A0 They can then add cups to their
make.conf and emerge -avuDN world to get full printing support.

Just as a sidebar, there is not a "lowly user."=C2=A0 Your input is great= ly
important in all matters regarding Gentoo as you are a member of the
userbase.=C2=A0 It's your operating system too! :)

Regards,
Nathan Zachary

=C2=A0=C2=A0

Let just think of it this way.=C2=A0 I have to reinstall say from a dead hard drive.=C2=A0 I have copies of my make.conf and world file.=C2=A0 I i= nstall my new drive, download the tarball and unpack it.=C2=A0 I copy over make.conf and world.=C2=A0 Naturally cups will be enabled.=C2=A0 Then I s= ync and start to update.=C2=A0 Isn't that circular dependency still going to be there?=C2=A0 After all, this is how I install Gentoo even if from scratch= .=C2=A0 I set my USE line before I start to emerge or update.

It seems to me, in my situation, this would not solve much.=C2=A0 Maybe I= am incorrect in that.

Dale

:-)=C2=A0 :-)

I believe the circular dependency is solved if one emerges gtk+ (and possibly poppler?) without CUPS support, and then goes back and emerges everything with CUPS.

Regards,
Nathan Zachary
 --------------010900030807040608090706--