* [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
@ 2009-09-29 13:32 Petteri Räty
2009-10-07 11:21 ` Marijn Schouten (hkBst)
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-09-29 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev-announce, gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 738 bytes --]
I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
betelgeuse@pena /usr/portage $ grep --include "*.ebuild" built_with_use
-r . | wc -l;
923
betelgeuse@pena ~/bin $ wc -l ebuilds_to_nuke.txt
317 ebuilds_to_nuke.txt
Regards,
Petteri
[-- Attachment #1.2: built_with_use_unused.rb --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 539 bytes --]
#!/usr/bin/ruby
require 'Paludis'
include Paludis
env = EnvironmentFactory.instance.create('')
require 'systemu'
status, stdout, stderr = systemu 'adjutrix -U --repository-dir /usr/portage/'
for line in stdout
next unless line.include?('/')
spec = "=" + line.strip
id = env[Selection::RequireExactlyOne.new(
Generator::Matches.new(Paludis::parse_user_package_dep_spec(spec, env, []), []))].first
ebuild = id['EBUILD'].value
File.open(ebuild) do |f|
puts ebuild if f.any? {|line| line.include?('built_with_use') }
end
end
[-- Attachment #1.3: ebuilds_to_nuke.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 28239 bytes --]
/usr/portage/app-admin/diradm/diradm-2.9.5.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-admin/gnome-system-tools/gnome-system-tools-2.22.1-r1.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-admin/moodss/moodss-20.2.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/crossover-office-pro-bin/crossover-office-pro-bin-4.2.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-qtlibs/emul-linux-x86-qtlibs-20080316.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-qtlibs/emul-linux-x86-qtlibs-20071114-r2.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/virtualbox-ose/virtualbox-ose-9999.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/virtualbox-ose/virtualbox-ose-1.6.6-r1.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/vmware-player/vmware-player-2.5.2.156735.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/vmware-player/vmware-player-2.5.1.126130.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/vmware-workstation/vmware-workstation-6.5.2.156735.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/vmware-workstation/vmware-workstation-6.5.1.126130.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/wine/wine-1.1.11.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/wine/wine-1.1.10.ebuild
/usr/portage/app-emulation/wine/wine-1.1.9.ebuild
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-09-29 13:32 [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-07 11:21 ` Marijn Schouten (hkBst)
2009-10-08 21:29 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-07 11:54 ` Stelian Ionescu
2009-10-24 12:32 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Petteri Räty
2 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Marijn Schouten (hkBst) @ 2009-10-07 11:21 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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Hash: SHA1
Petteri Räty wrote:
> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
I have some ebuilds on the list: plt-scheme, stklos, lilypond. I usually clean
up unused ebuilds some time after a new version has gone stable.
Anyway my question is: what is the point of removing unused versions in the
proposed manner? If the newer version is not ported to EAPI 2 and also uses
built_with_use what do we gain? Even if it is already ported, do we gain
anything by the propsed removal? Are all unused ebuilds evil?
If built_with_use is to be eliminated from the tree I propose that effort is
directed towards porting and stabling ebuilds that still use it. After the
stable version has begun using EAPI 2 use deps, then all uses of built_with_use
in other versions can be considered obsolete and those ebuilds can be removed in
one fell sweep if need be.
Marijn
- --
If you cannot read my mind, then listen to what I say.
Marijn Schouten (hkBst), Gentoo Lisp project, Gentoo ML
<http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-{lisp,ml} on FreeNode
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-07 11:21 ` Marijn Schouten (hkBst)
@ 2009-10-08 21:29 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-08 21:29 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1858 bytes --]
Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:
> Petteri Räty wrote:
>> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
>> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
>> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
>> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
>> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
>> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
>> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
>> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
>
> I have some ebuilds on the list: plt-scheme, stklos, lilypond. I usually clean
> up unused ebuilds some time after a new version has gone stable.
>
> Anyway my question is: what is the point of removing unused versions in the
> proposed manner? If the newer version is not ported to EAPI 2 and also uses
> built_with_use what do we gain? Even if it is already ported, do we gain
> anything by the propsed removal? Are all unused ebuilds evil?
>
It saves my time when removing built_with_use from packages that still
have active versions using it. Many packages are also unmaintained so
the versions with built_with_use don't get removed without doing
something like this.
> If built_with_use is to be eliminated from the tree I propose that effort is
> directed towards porting and stabling ebuilds that still use it. After the
> stable version has begun using EAPI 2 use deps, then all uses of built_with_use
> in other versions can be considered obsolete and those ebuilds can be removed in
> one fell sweep if need be.
>
It will be eliminated eventually. I am in the process of doing so but as
you can see from the numbers it takes quite a lot of work to get rid of
them.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-09-29 13:32 [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup Petteri Räty
2009-10-07 11:21 ` Marijn Schouten (hkBst)
@ 2009-10-07 11:54 ` Stelian Ionescu
2009-10-08 21:34 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-24 12:32 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Petteri Räty
2 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Stelian Ionescu @ 2009-10-07 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:32 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
built_with_use shouldn't be removed until EAPI=3 gets approved because
currently there's no good way to emulate "--missing true|false|die"
yes, I can use something like this in sbcl:
|| ( <sys-libs/glibc-2.6[nptl] >=sys-libs/glibc-2.6 )
but not all its use cases may be this simple
--
Stelian Ionescu a.k.a. fe[nl]ix
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-07 11:54 ` Stelian Ionescu
@ 2009-10-08 21:34 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-08 22:03 ` Jeremy Olexa
2009-10-08 22:25 ` Tomáš Chvátal
0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-08 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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Stelian Ionescu wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:32 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
>> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
>> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
>> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
>> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
>> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
>> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
>> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
>
> built_with_use shouldn't be removed until EAPI=3 gets approved because
> currently there's no good way to emulate "--missing true|false|die"
> yes, I can use something like this in sbcl:
> || ( <sys-libs/glibc-2.6[nptl] >=sys-libs/glibc-2.6 )
> but not all its use cases may be this simple
>
Even this is wrong because:
betelgeuse@pena ~ $ portageq metadata / ebuild sys-libs/glibc-2.2.5-r10 IUSE
nls
For most packages old versions are not kept around so just doing
>=cat/foo-X.Y[use] is fine and EAPI 3 is not needed. I haven't come
across a case that couldn't be done with EAPI 2 yet. Granted the atoms
can be a bit cleaner with EAPI 3 but considering how much zmedico slacks
in implementing it, it's best to do migrating now with EAPI 2 than EAPI
3 in the far future.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-08 21:34 ` Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-08 22:03 ` Jeremy Olexa
2009-10-08 22:22 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-08 22:25 ` Tomáš Chvátal
1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Jeremy Olexa @ 2009-10-08 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Stelian Ionescu wrote:
>> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:32 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>>> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
>>> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
>>> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
>>> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
>>> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
>>> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
>>> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
>>> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
>>
>> built_with_use shouldn't be removed until EAPI=3 gets approved because
>> currently there's no good way to emulate "--missing true|false|die"
>> yes, I can use something like this in sbcl:
>> || ( <sys-libs/glibc-2.6[nptl] >=sys-libs/glibc-2.6 )
>> but not all its use cases may be this simple
>>
>
> Even this is wrong because:
>
> betelgeuse@pena ~ $ portageq metadata / ebuild sys-libs/glibc-2.2.5-r10 IUSE
> nls
>
> For most packages old versions are not kept around so just doing
>>=cat/foo-X.Y[use] is fine and EAPI 3 is not needed. I haven't come
> across a case that couldn't be done with EAPI 2 yet. Granted the atoms
> can be a bit cleaner with EAPI 3 but considering how much zmedico slacks
> in implementing it, it's best to do migrating now with EAPI 2 than EAPI
Comments like these are not acceptable. Zac works his tail off on
portage. Please refrain from such comments in the future.
-Jeremy
> 3 in the far future.
>
> Regards,
> Petteri
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-08 22:03 ` Jeremy Olexa
@ 2009-10-08 22:22 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-09 0:17 ` Patrick Lauer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-08 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1887 bytes --]
Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Stelian Ionescu wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:32 +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>>>> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
>>>> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
>>>> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
>>>> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
>>>> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
>>>> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
>>>> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
>>>> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
>>> built_with_use shouldn't be removed until EAPI=3 gets approved because
>>> currently there's no good way to emulate "--missing true|false|die"
>>> yes, I can use something like this in sbcl:
>>> || ( <sys-libs/glibc-2.6[nptl] >=sys-libs/glibc-2.6 )
>>> but not all its use cases may be this simple
>>>
>> Even this is wrong because:
>>
>> betelgeuse@pena ~ $ portageq metadata / ebuild sys-libs/glibc-2.2.5-r10 IUSE
>> nls
>>
>> For most packages old versions are not kept around so just doing
>>> =cat/foo-X.Y[use] is fine and EAPI 3 is not needed. I haven't come
>> across a case that couldn't be done with EAPI 2 yet. Granted the atoms
>> can be a bit cleaner with EAPI 3 but considering how much zmedico slacks
>> in implementing it, it's best to do migrating now with EAPI 2 than EAPI
>
> Comments like these are not acceptable. Zac works his tail off on
> portage. Please refrain from such comments in the future.
> -Jeremy
>
He has said himself that he is not especially interested in implementing
EAPI 3 so slack at least to me seems like a good term.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-08 22:22 ` Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-09 0:17 ` Patrick Lauer
2009-10-09 13:38 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Lauer @ 2009-10-09 0:17 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Friday 09 October 2009 00:22:26 Petteri Räty wrote:
> >> across a case that couldn't be done with EAPI 2 yet. Granted the atoms
> >> can be a bit cleaner with EAPI 3 but considering how much zmedico slacks
> >> in implementing it, it's best to do migrating now with EAPI 2 than EAPI
> >
> > Comments like these are not acceptable. Zac works his tail off on
> > portage. Please refrain from such comments in the future.
> > -Jeremy
>
> He has said himself that he is not especially interested in implementing
> EAPI 3 so slack at least to me seems like a good term.
I'm not sold on it either. Most devs barely know the difference between
different EAPIs (just extrapolating from the many questions I see e.g. on IRC)
(and I think they shouldn't have to know because we should be using one EAPI
only, but that's just my random opinion)
Most ebuilds are still EAPI0 - rough count gives me:
EAPI 0 - 19654
EAPI 1 - 1651
EAPI 2 - 5497
And that's with all the "forced" migrations for features like use-deps or the
removal of built_with_use. So unless there's some "strongly needed" features
there's no need for it. I can't remember any feature in the EAPI 3 list that
really looked useful to me, so not adding it now now now doesn't bother me at
all. Just causes more confusion for no real benefit. So who cares if it is
delayed by a few timeunits, there's much more important stuff to do.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-09 0:17 ` Patrick Lauer
@ 2009-10-09 13:38 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-09 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1130 bytes --]
Patrick Lauer wrote:
>
> And that's with all the "forced" migrations for features like use-deps or the
> removal of built_with_use. So unless there's some "strongly needed" features
> there's no need for it. I can't remember any feature in the EAPI 3 list that
> really looked useful to me, so not adding it now now now doesn't bother me at
> all. Just causes more confusion for no real benefit. So who cares if it is
> delayed by a few timeunits, there's much more important stuff to do.
>
Here's two features that by themselves are important enough to get EAPI
3 implemented. Using pkg_pretend it should be possible to eliminate
expected dies from build time and as such improving user experience. An
example is two use flags that conflict with each other. Use dependency
defaults make the life of ebuild writers easier as you don't need to be
careful with version restrictions any more if you have a case where
something has been on by default and then becomes a use flag for
example. This should eliminate cases like causing glibc downgrade in the
depgraph by being careless.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-08 21:34 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-08 22:03 ` Jeremy Olexa
@ 2009-10-08 22:25 ` Tomáš Chvátal
2009-10-09 13:41 ` Petteri Räty
1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Tomáš Chvátal @ 2009-10-08 22:25 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On čtvrtek 08 Říjen 2009, 23:34:10 Petteri Räty wrote:
> Even this is wrong because:
Hi
...
>
> betelgeuse@pena ~ $ portageq metadata / ebuild sys-libs/glibc-2.2.5-r10
> IUSE nls
>
> For most packages old versions are not kept around so just doing
> >=cat/foo-X.Y[use] is fine and EAPI 3 is not needed. I haven't come
> across a case that couldn't be done with EAPI 2 yet. Granted the atoms
> can be a bit cleaner with EAPI 3 but considering how much zmedico slacks
> in implementing it, it's best to do migrating now with EAPI 2 than EAPI
> 3 in the far future.
This is not exactly nice of you. And taking in account that you are actualy
the council member it makes me feel not entirely happy.
If we just simply take look onto this:
http://cia.vc/stats/author/zmedico/
we can count that Zac commit something into portage every 3 hours. It does not
look entirely like slacking...
So you are basicaly proposing that maintaining the current codebase and
improving what we already have is less important than providing new features,
that is also not good.
Just my 2 cents
Tomas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-08 22:25 ` Tomáš Chvátal
@ 2009-10-09 13:41 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-09 13:41 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1725 bytes --]
Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> On čtvrtek 08 Říjen 2009, 23:34:10 Petteri Räty wrote:
>> Even this is wrong because:
> Hi
> ...
>> betelgeuse@pena ~ $ portageq metadata / ebuild sys-libs/glibc-2.2.5-r10
>> IUSE nls
>>
>> For most packages old versions are not kept around so just doing
>>> =cat/foo-X.Y[use] is fine and EAPI 3 is not needed. I haven't come
>> across a case that couldn't be done with EAPI 2 yet. Granted the atoms
>> can be a bit cleaner with EAPI 3 but considering how much zmedico slacks
>> in implementing it, it's best to do migrating now with EAPI 2 than EAPI
>> 3 in the far future.
> This is not exactly nice of you. And taking in account that you are actualy
> the council member it makes me feel not entirely happy.
> If we just simply take look onto this:
> http://cia.vc/stats/author/zmedico/
> we can count that Zac commit something into portage every 3 hours. It does not
> look entirely like slacking...
> So you are basicaly proposing that maintaining the current codebase and
> improving what we already have is less important than providing new features,
> that is also not good.
>
I am not suggesting that the work Zac does is worthless. I am saying
that implementing EAPI 3 is not a colossal amount of work and if it was
a priority to him it would have already been implemented. If he feels
offended by my original comment, I have no problem apologizing to him.
Not having EAPI 3 implemented in general is not his fault as many of us
have the needed skills to start helping on the Portage code base. The
reality just is that he is the most likely person to implement it and as
such a very important factor on when it happens.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-09-29 13:32 [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup Petteri Räty
2009-10-07 11:21 ` Marijn Schouten (hkBst)
2009-10-07 11:54 ` Stelian Ionescu
@ 2009-10-24 12:32 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-24 20:29 ` James Cloos
2 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-24 12:32 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev, gentoo-dev-announce
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Petteri Räty wrote:
> I wrote a script to check which ebuilds use built_with_use and have
> keywords in never versions making the ebuild unused. This means that
> neither arch or ~arch users are likely to install the ebuild. The script
> and the list of ebuilds is attached. I plan on removing all these
> ebuilds two weeks from now unless a reason is given why not to. If you
> see an ebuild on the list that should be kept, please migrate it to EAPI
> 2. If you need assistance in migrating, I can help. With these gone
> built_with_use usage will be down to about 600:
>
> betelgeuse@pena /usr/portage $ grep --include "*.ebuild" built_with_use
> -r . | wc -l;
> 923
> betelgeuse@pena ~/bin $ wc -l ebuilds_to_nuke.txt
> 317 ebuilds_to_nuke.txt
>
> Regards,
> Petteri
>
It's over two weeks now so I will start the cleanup when I have time. I
will leave packages that I think are used widely to be last so
maintainers of those still have time to do things on their own. I have
exams coming next week so it will probably take a while for me to
process the list. Here's the people/packages that wanted to be excluded
from the list:
GNOME
gstreamer
gnuplot
hkBst
If I forgot someone, please slap me around a bit with a large trout.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-24 12:32 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-24 20:29 ` James Cloos
2009-10-25 9:48 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: James Cloos @ 2009-10-24 20:29 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev; +Cc: gentoo-dev-announce
When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely to
be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
-JimC
--
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-24 20:29 ` James Cloos
@ 2009-10-25 9:48 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-26 23:21 ` James Cloos
2009-10-27 6:07 ` Ryan Hill
0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-25 9:48 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 486 bytes --]
James Cloos wrote:
> When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
> ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
>
> Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely to
> be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
>
> -JimC
Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to EAPI 2.
If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we want to keep live
ebuilds for them around?
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-25 9:48 ` Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-26 23:21 ` James Cloos
2009-10-27 13:12 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-27 6:07 ` Ryan Hill
1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: James Cloos @ 2009-10-26 23:21 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
>>>>> "Petteri" == Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> writes:
Petteri> Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to
Petteri> EAPI 2. If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we
Petteri> want to keep live ebuilds for them around?
What possible benefit could be had from dropping ebuilds for no other
reason than their EAPI?
(Incidently, since I mentioned it as the one I remembered from the first
post, I see that git-9999 is EAPI 2 even though it does use built_with_use.)
Any mass removal should be as conservative as possible in the list of
things removed, just like anything which declares something unlawful
should be interpreted narrowly.
Your initial post indicated that you only wanted to drop ebuilds which
were unlikely to be in use by users. Given the fact that most (all?)
live ebuilds are masked, any automated tests for the likelyhood that
an ebuild is in active use will, by definition, have false negatives
when dealing with live ebuilds. (Where false negative means unlikely
to be in use even though it, in fact, is in use.)
And even if you did not intend to limit your removals as much as you
indicated, it is still wrong to remove anything which the userbase
actively uses. These are not ebuilds which are broken, just ones
which, while functional, remain imperfect.
-JimC
--
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-26 23:21 ` James Cloos
@ 2009-10-27 13:12 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-27 13:12 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1185 bytes --]
James Cloos wrote:
>>>>>> "Petteri" == Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> writes:
>
> Petteri> Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to
> Petteri> EAPI 2. If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we
> Petteri> want to keep live ebuilds for them around?
>
> What possible benefit could be had from dropping ebuilds for no other
> reason than their EAPI?
>
The goal is to eventually get rid of built_with_use.
>
> Your initial post indicated that you only wanted to drop ebuilds which
> were unlikely to be in use by users. Given the fact that most (all?)
> live ebuilds are masked, any automated tests for the likelyhood that
> an ebuild is in active use will, by definition, have false negatives
> when dealing with live ebuilds. (Where false negative means unlikely
> to be in use even though it, in fact, is in use.)
>
If you read the code I attached you will see that the reason live
ebuilds show up in there is because adjutrix -U puts them to the list
because they don't have any keywords. It follows my original reasoning
that for live ebuilds the solution is to migrate them to EAPI 2.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-25 9:48 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-26 23:21 ` James Cloos
@ 2009-10-27 6:07 ` Ryan Hill
2009-10-27 7:02 ` Mike Frysinger
1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Ryan Hill @ 2009-10-27 6:07 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:48:39 +0200
Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> James Cloos wrote:
> > When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
> > ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
> >
> > Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely to
> > be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
> >
> > -JimC
>
> Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to EAPI 2.
> If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we want to keep live
> ebuilds for them around?
Your stated goal was to remove unused ebuilds, which live ebuilds are not,
regardless of the status of the maintainer. And I'm pretty sure git has an
active maintainer. :P
--
fonts, Character is what you are in the dark.
gcc-porting,
wxwidgets @ gentoo EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-27 6:07 ` Ryan Hill
@ 2009-10-27 7:02 ` Mike Frysinger
2009-10-27 13:09 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2009-10-27 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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On Tuesday 27 October 2009 02:07:02 Ryan Hill wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:48:39 +0200 Petteri Räty wrote:
> > James Cloos wrote:
> > > When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
> > > ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
> > >
> > > Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely
> > > to be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
> >
> > Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to EAPI 2.
> > If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we want to keep live
> > ebuilds for them around?
>
> Your stated goal was to remove unused ebuilds, which live ebuilds are not,
> regardless of the status of the maintainer. And I'm pretty sure git has an
> active maintainer. :P
indeed. you really should file bugs for these instead of deleting ebuilds on
people who missed a thread on gentoo-dev.
-mike
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-27 7:02 ` Mike Frysinger
@ 2009-10-27 13:09 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-27 13:46 ` Mike Frysinger
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-27 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1112 bytes --]
Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 02:07:02 Ryan Hill wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:48:39 +0200 Petteri Räty wrote:
>>> James Cloos wrote:
>>>> When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
>>>> ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
>>>>
>>>> Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely
>>>> to be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
>>> Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to EAPI 2.
>>> If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we want to keep live
>>> ebuilds for them around?
>> Your stated goal was to remove unused ebuilds, which live ebuilds are not,
>> regardless of the status of the maintainer. And I'm pretty sure git has an
>> active maintainer. :P
>
> indeed. you really should file bugs for these instead of deleting ebuilds on
> people who missed a thread on gentoo-dev.
> -mike
All developers are required to follow gentoo-dev-announce. If they don't
follow that, it can't be expected for them to follow bugzilla either.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-27 13:09 ` Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-27 13:46 ` Mike Frysinger
2009-10-27 18:46 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2009-10-27 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1432 bytes --]
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 09:09:48 Petteri Räty wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 02:07:02 Ryan Hill wrote:
> >> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:48:39 +0200 Petteri Räty wrote:
> >>> James Cloos wrote:
> >>>> When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
> >>>> ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
> >>>>
> >>>> Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely
> >>>> to be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
> >>>
> >>> Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to EAPI 2.
> >>> If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we want to keep live
> >>> ebuilds for them around?
> >>
> >> Your stated goal was to remove unused ebuilds, which live ebuilds are
> >> not, regardless of the status of the maintainer. And I'm pretty sure
> >> git has an active maintainer. :P
> >
> > indeed. you really should file bugs for these instead of deleting
> > ebuilds on people who missed a thread on gentoo-dev.
>
> All developers are required to follow gentoo-dev-announce. If they don't
> follow that, it can't be expected for them to follow bugzilla either.
that's a poor excuse. file bugs instead of tromping on other people's
packages since you clearly have a list of ebuilds you shouldnt be removing and
you dont intend to fix. i doubt Ryan's example of git-9999 is the only one.
-mike
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-27 13:46 ` Mike Frysinger
@ 2009-10-27 18:46 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-28 2:31 ` [gentoo-dev] " Mike Frysinger
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-27 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1932 bytes --]
Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 09:09:48 Petteri Räty wrote:
>> Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 02:07:02 Ryan Hill wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:48:39 +0200 Petteri Räty wrote:
>>>>> James Cloos wrote:
>>>>>> When you first psoted this list I noticed some (or several?) live
>>>>>> ebuilds. Git-9999 is the one I remember.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those should not get nuked during global cleanups, as they are likely
>>>>>> to be in active use notwithstanding their keywording or masking.
>>>>> Their maintainers should be active and switch their ebuilds to EAPI 2.
>>>>> If they don't have an active maintainer, then do we want to keep live
>>>>> ebuilds for them around?
>>>> Your stated goal was to remove unused ebuilds, which live ebuilds are
>>>> not, regardless of the status of the maintainer. And I'm pretty sure
>>>> git has an active maintainer. :P
>>> indeed. you really should file bugs for these instead of deleting
>>> ebuilds on people who missed a thread on gentoo-dev.
>> All developers are required to follow gentoo-dev-announce. If they don't
>> follow that, it can't be expected for them to follow bugzilla either.
>
> that's a poor excuse. file bugs instead of tromping on other people's
> packages since you clearly have a list of ebuilds you shouldnt be removing and
> you dont intend to fix. i doubt Ryan's example of git-9999 is the only one.
> -mike
Normally old versions are not kept around as already said if you read
the thread. Live ebuilds shouldn't really have been in the original list
with my intended logic. For them I will usually just migrate them to
EAPI 2 like with other packages we have been touching. Using a tracker
bug makes sense if you expect some action from individual maintainers
which is not the case here as they can just leave the job to people
nuking built_with_use like me.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-27 18:46 ` Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-28 2:31 ` Mike Frysinger
2009-10-28 9:51 ` Petteri Räty
0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2009-10-28 2:31 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1110 bytes --]
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 14:46:31 Petteri Räty wrote:
> Normally old versions are not kept around as already said if you read
> the thread.
"normal" is not the same thing as "always". unless you're the maintainer, you
have no idea whether old versions are kept there on purpose. ive had people
delete older versions of packages on me simply because they made this invalid
assumption without talking to the maintainer. the rest of the thread is
irrelevant as this point was not made.
a quick check of your list shows wine/uclibc shouldnt be blindly culled.
> Live ebuilds shouldn't really have been in the original list
> with my intended logic. For them I will usually just migrate them to
> EAPI 2 like with other packages we have been touching.
OK
> Using a tracker bug makes sense if you expect some action from individual
> maintainers which is not the case here as they can just leave the job to
> people nuking built_with_use like me.
i dont plan on fixing my ebuilds soonish since this isnt a terribly important
issue, but they'll get fixed at some point
-mike
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-28 2:31 ` [gentoo-dev] " Mike Frysinger
@ 2009-10-28 9:51 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-28 11:11 ` Alexis Ballier
2009-10-30 2:29 ` Doug Goldstein
0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2009-10-28 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 14:46:31 Petteri Räty wrote:
>> Normally old versions are not kept around as already said if you read
>> the thread.
>
> "normal" is not the same thing as "always". unless you're the maintainer, you
> have no idea whether old versions are kept there on purpose. ive had people
> delete older versions of packages on me simply because they made this invalid
> assumption without talking to the maintainer. the rest of the thread is
> irrelevant as this point was not made.
>
Yes I have no idea. That's why I asked on gentoo-dev-announce for
maintainers to tell me if they are kept on purpose so the point was made
already at the very start.
Regards,
Petteri
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-28 9:51 ` Petteri Räty
@ 2009-10-28 11:11 ` Alexis Ballier
2009-10-30 2:29 ` Doug Goldstein
1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Alexis Ballier @ 2009-10-28 11:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1890 bytes --]
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:51:34 +0200
Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 14:46:31 Petteri Räty wrote:
> >> Normally old versions are not kept around as already said if you
> >> read the thread.
> >
> > "normal" is not the same thing as "always". unless you're the
> > maintainer, you have no idea whether old versions are kept there on
> > purpose. ive had people delete older versions of packages on me
> > simply because they made this invalid assumption without talking to
> > the maintainer. the rest of the thread is irrelevant as this point
> > was not made.
> >
>
> Yes I have no idea. That's why I asked on gentoo-dev-announce for
> maintainers to tell me if they are kept on purpose so the point was
> made already at the very start.
Still, it has already been stated but: please file bugs! A big tracker
would probably be messy, one bug / herd or category could be better.
You did file some bugs at some point, where I was in the assigned herd
and did proceed quickly I think. Why did you stop? Some were just
straight removal, some did need some other removal in order to be clean
(this may be due to the fact that packages didnt work with latest
versions but didn't have restricted deps on the package that would have
to be removed).
I am not following -dev very carefully and am too lazy to dig in a list
posted on -dev-announce to find out if I need to do something or not. A
bug makes that easy to track and is the usual way of getting ebuild
changes done in the tree. We rant on users who report bugs on -dev, I'm
afraid the the same applies to developers :)
Also, remark that your script is flawed, I see some freebsd stuff in
your list which are certainly the best visible version on some
profiles. Again, this will be better tracked in a bug.
Alexis.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup
2009-10-28 9:51 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-28 11:11 ` Alexis Ballier
@ 2009-10-30 2:29 ` Doug Goldstein
1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Doug Goldstein @ 2009-10-30 2:29 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 4:51 AM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 14:46:31 Petteri Räty wrote:
>>> Normally old versions are not kept around as already said if you read
>>> the thread.
>>
>> "normal" is not the same thing as "always". unless you're the maintainer, you
>> have no idea whether old versions are kept there on purpose. ive had people
>> delete older versions of packages on me simply because they made this invalid
>> assumption without talking to the maintainer. the rest of the thread is
>> irrelevant as this point was not made.
>>
>
> Yes I have no idea. That's why I asked on gentoo-dev-announce for
> maintainers to tell me if they are kept on purpose so the point was made
> already at the very start.
>
> Regards,
> Petteri
>
>
I see several of my packages on there as well and there's absolutely
no way you're culling them since they have a definite use since you're
script clearly failed to take into consideration various profiles and
SLOTs. Biggest reason that my packages still use built_with_use is the
lack of the --missing option for EAPI=2.
--
Doug Goldstein
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-10-30 2:29 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-09-29 13:32 [gentoo-dev] Unused ebuild built_with_use cleanup Petteri Räty
2009-10-07 11:21 ` Marijn Schouten (hkBst)
2009-10-08 21:29 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-07 11:54 ` Stelian Ionescu
2009-10-08 21:34 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-08 22:03 ` Jeremy Olexa
2009-10-08 22:22 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-09 0:17 ` Patrick Lauer
2009-10-09 13:38 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-08 22:25 ` Tomáš Chvátal
2009-10-09 13:41 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-24 12:32 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Petteri Räty
2009-10-24 20:29 ` James Cloos
2009-10-25 9:48 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-26 23:21 ` James Cloos
2009-10-27 13:12 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-27 6:07 ` Ryan Hill
2009-10-27 7:02 ` Mike Frysinger
2009-10-27 13:09 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-27 13:46 ` Mike Frysinger
2009-10-27 18:46 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-28 2:31 ` [gentoo-dev] " Mike Frysinger
2009-10-28 9:51 ` Petteri Räty
2009-10-28 11:11 ` Alexis Ballier
2009-10-30 2:29 ` Doug Goldstein
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