[gentoo-dev] Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[gentoo-dev] Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Hi there!


With the GSoC deadline behind me I took the liberty to put a few hours
into something Funtoo-related that I've been wanting to do before.

Funtoo's tree is a melting pot currently combining ebuilds from the
trees (from [1])

  - gentoo
  - mpd
  - perl-experimental
  - sunrise

with

 - Funtoo-only ebuilds
 - version bumps


>From a Funtoo perspective it makes sense to keep it all in one
repository.  Still, wouldn't it be nice to have ..

  an overlay with stuff that's available in Funtoo only?

I've been working on a tool ("funtoo-ripper" [2], written in Python) to
automate dissection and keeping a dedicated overlay ("pure-funtoo" [3])
in sync.  Commits are done automatically, triggering and pushing is
manual at the moment.


A nice pure-funtoo summary will be auto-added to

  http://gentoo-overlays.zugaina.org/pure-funtoo

soon I guess.


I hope this overlay enables collaboration on a level that was
technically difficult so far.  I'm curious how it turns out.

So long,



Sebastian


[1] http://funtoo.org/en/articles/funtoo/quick-install-howto/
[2] http://git.goodpoint.de/?p=funtoo-ripper.git;a=summary
[3] http://git.goodpoint.de/?p=pure-funtoo.git;a=summary

Re: [gentoo-dev] Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Commits are done automatically, triggering and pushing is
> manual at the moment.

By now a cron-based setup is running syncing the pure-funtoo overlay
(and therefore also its atom and rss feeds) every 24 hours.



Sebastian

[gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/22/2009 05:39 AM, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>> Commits are done automatically, triggering and pushing is
>> manual at the moment.
>
> By now a cron-based setup is running syncing the pure-funtoo overlay
> (and therefore also its atom and rss feeds) every 24 hours.

There seems to be a bit of (minimal) duplication between pure-funtoo and 
sunrise:

   app-office/thinking-rock-bin
   dev-tex/mimetex
   x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau

And since sunrise is the most popular overlay, it might be a good idea 
to also omit packages found in sunrise.

[gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/22/2009 05:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 08/22/2009 05:39 AM, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>> Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>>> Commits are done automatically, triggering and pushing is
>>> manual at the moment.
>>
>> By now a cron-based setup is running syncing the pure-funtoo overlay
>> (and therefore also its atom and rss feeds) every 24 hours.
>
> There seems to be a bit of (minimal) duplication between pure-funtoo and
> sunrise.

Uhm, I just discovered that there are conflicts with portage too.  That 
is not good.  After I added pure-funtoo, it messed up my emerge -u world 
(stuff like wanting to upgrade to sys-apps/baselayout-2.1.5).

pure-funtoo should not offer packages available in portage (sunrise is 
the lesser evil).

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Jeremy Olexa]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 08/22/2009 05:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 08/22/2009 05:39 AM, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>>> Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>>>> Commits are done automatically, triggering and pushing is
>>>> manual at the moment.
>>>
>>> By now a cron-based setup is running syncing the pure-funtoo overlay
>>> (and therefore also its atom and rss feeds) every 24 hours.
>>
>> There seems to be a bit of (minimal) duplication between pure-funtoo and
>> sunrise.
> 
> Uhm, I just discovered that there are conflicts with portage too.  That 
> is not good.  After I added pure-funtoo, it messed up my emerge -u world 
> (stuff like wanting to upgrade to sys-apps/baselayout-2.1.5).
> 
> pure-funtoo should not offer packages available in portage (sunrise is 
> the lesser evil).

Huh? This is true of all overlays. If my overlay had baselayout-5.0 in 
it, you would be upgrading to that version if you had my overlay... By 
nature of overlays themselves, you should know what you are doing and 
how to handle it (ie. mask >=sys-apps/baselayout-2.0.1)

-Jeremy

[gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/22/2009 06:40 AM, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 08/22/2009 05:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> On 08/22/2009 05:39 AM, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>>>> Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>>>>> Commits are done automatically, triggering and pushing is
>>>>> manual at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> By now a cron-based setup is running syncing the pure-funtoo overlay
>>>> (and therefore also its atom and rss feeds) every 24 hours.
>>>
>>> There seems to be a bit of (minimal) duplication between pure-funtoo and
>>> sunrise.
>>
>> Uhm, I just discovered that there are conflicts with portage too. That
>> is not good. After I added pure-funtoo, it messed up my emerge -u
>> world (stuff like wanting to upgrade to sys-apps/baselayout-2.1.5).
>>
>> pure-funtoo should not offer packages available in portage (sunrise is
>> the lesser evil).
>
> Huh? This is true of all overlays.

Not the ones I'm using.


> If my overlay had baselayout-5.0 in
> it, you would be upgrading to that version if you had my overlay... By
> nature of overlays themselves, you should know what you are doing and
> how to handle it (ie. mask >=sys-apps/baselayout-2.0.1)

I use overlays for packages I can't get through portage.  If they 
conflict, I don't use them.  Masking is no solution.  If I mask 
">=sys-apps/baselayout-2.0.1", I mask it for good, not only in the 
specific overlay it comes from.  If portage updates to it, I'll never 
get it.

This is quite a major pain in the ass and the reason I stay far away 
from overlays that offer conflicting packages.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 08/22/2009 06:40 AM, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> Huh? This is true of all overlays.
> 
> Not the ones I'm using.

Have you ever used the X11, GNOME or KDE teams overlays? Most of the
overlays around exist so that people can work on important updates to
existing packages or to test new ideas / features.
In that respect, sunrise is a "special overlay" as it follows the rule
that it must not contain any package in the tree. IOW, overlays having
just new packages, not present in the tree or other overlays, are the
exception, not the norm.

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / SPARC / KDE
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/22/2009 04:27 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 08/22/2009 06:40 AM, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
>>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> Huh? This is true of all overlays.
>>
>> Not the ones I'm using.
>
> Have you ever used the X11, GNOME or KDE teams overlays?

Nope.  I had to remove them again due to the problem I mentioned.


> Most of the
> overlays around exist so that people can work on important updates to
> existing packages or to test new ideas / features.
> In that respect, sunrise is a "special overlay" as it follows the rule
> that it must not contain any package in the tree. IOW, overlays having
> just new packages, not present in the tree or other overlays, are the
> exception, not the norm.

They are pretty much the only ones I use though (at this time, 
interactive-fiction, oss-overlay and sunrise.)  The others are a pain to 
keep due to portage not being able to use only packages from overlays 
that don't exist in portage.

Of course that's my personal opinion.  I don't use 
"developer/experimental" overlays, I only use those who provide some 
extra packages I want.  And I was under the impression that pure-funtoo 
falls under this category: providing packages that don't exist in portage.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Jeremy Olexa]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> Of course that's my personal opinion.  I don't use 
> "developer/experimental" overlays, I only use those who provide some 
> extra packages I want.  And I was under the impression that pure-funtoo 
> falls under this category: providing packages that don't exist in portage.

By the nature of Funtoo being a entirely different distribution, that is 
a wrong assumption. It is unreasonable to expect the pure-funtoo overlay 
owner to mask everything that is an upgrade but not in portage yet. I 
would recommend that you remove the pure-funtoo overlay, because your 
expectations don't match reality.

-Jeremy

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> And I was under the impression that pure-funtoo
> falls under this category: providing packages that don't exist in portage.

If you want to you can adjust  funtoo-ripper  to do just that on your
local machine.  All you have to do is adjust the

  EbuildTree._minus

function:
http://git.goodpoint.de/?p=funtoo-ripper.git;a=blob;f=funtoo-ripper

Let me know if you have trouble with setting it up or if you have
patches for me.



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> I use overlays for packages I can't get through portage.  If they
> conflict, I don't use them.

Why do you apply such a general rule?
For instance I have been using  dev-util/diffuse  from the zugaina
overlay until a newer version went into the gentoo tree.

Portage tells you which overlays the packages you're about
to install come from.

I agree though, that masking is not a perfect solution here, or not even
a solution if you want.  Support for overlay-specific atoms could be a
solution I think.  In case you have the time helping us bring that to
Gentoo that would be cool, I actually want support for that, too.



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Uhm, I just discovered that there are conflicts with portage too.  That
> is not good.  After I added pure-funtoo, it messed up my emerge -u world
> (stuff like wanting to upgrade to sys-apps/baselayout-2.1.5).

Hopefully fixed
http://git.goodpoint.de/?p=pure-funtoo.git;a=commitdiff;h=341663321f0cf876390fff5967105e403ed3fcbc



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Jeremy Olexa]

Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> Uhm, I just discovered that there are conflicts with portage too.  That
>> is not good.  After I added pure-funtoo, it messed up my emerge -u world
>> (stuff like wanting to upgrade to sys-apps/baselayout-2.1.5).
> 
> Hopefully fixed
> http://git.goodpoint.de/?p=pure-funtoo.git;a=commitdiff;h=341663321f0cf876390fff5967105e403ed3fcbc

See, the problem with this is when Gentoo itself gets a 
baselayout-2.1.x, then it is masked for them if they have the 
pure-funtoo overlay. IOW, people will complain one way, and then they 
will complain the other way. IMO, it is "busy work" for the overlay 
owner and should be left to the user to "know what they are doing" 
because all overlays are experimental.

2 cents,
-Jeremy

[gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/22/2009 05:56 PM, Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> Sebastian Pipping wrote:
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> Uhm, I just discovered that there are conflicts with portage too. That
>>> is not good. After I added pure-funtoo, it messed up my emerge -u world
>>> (stuff like wanting to upgrade to sys-apps/baselayout-2.1.5).
>>
>> Hopefully fixed
>> http://git.goodpoint.de/?p=pure-funtoo.git;a=commitdiff;h=341663321f0cf876390fff5967105e403ed3fcbc
>>
>
> See, the problem with this is when Gentoo itself gets a
> baselayout-2.1.x, then it is masked for them if they have the
> pure-funtoo overlay. IOW, people will complain one way, and then they
> will complain the other way. IMO, it is "busy work" for the overlay
> owner and should be left to the user to "know what they are doing"
> because all overlays are experimental.

That is not true generally though.  Most of them are of "experimental" 
nature, but some try to provide good, working and stable packages for 
stuff that can't make it into portage (no dev willing to adopt it, 
unpopular software, policy reasons, etc.)  Just because something isn't 
in portage doesn't mean it's always "experimental".

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Sebastian Pipping]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> There seems to be a bit of (minimal) duplication between pure-funtoo and
> sunrise:
> 
>   app-office/thinking-rock-bin
>   dev-tex/mimetex
>   x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau
> 
> And since sunrise is the most popular overlay, it might be a good idea
> to also omit packages found in sunrise.

Sunrise ebuilds are subtracted already.

The reason app-office/thinking-rock-bin ends up in pure-funtoo is that
newer version of existing ebuilds are also taking into account:

  Sunrise:  2.0_pre2-r2
  Funtoo:   2.0.1

That's why app-office/thinking-rock-bin-2.0.1 is in pure-funtoo.



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Thomas Sachau]

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Sebastian Pipping schrieb:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> There seems to be a bit of (minimal) duplication between pure-funtoo and
>> sunrise:
>>
>>   app-office/thinking-rock-bin
>>   dev-tex/mimetex
>>   x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau
>>
>> And since sunrise is the most popular overlay, it might be a good idea
>> to also omit packages found in sunrise.
> 
> Sunrise ebuilds are subtracted already.
> 
> The reason app-office/thinking-rock-bin ends up in pure-funtoo is that
> newer version of existing ebuilds are also taking into account:
> 
>   Sunrise:  2.0_pre2-r2
>   Funtoo:   2.0.1
> 
> That's why app-office/thinking-rock-bin-2.0.1 is in pure-funtoo.
> 
> 
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 

I suggest that you (or the person, who added those ebuilds to funtoo) join the Sunrise project and
update the ebuild in the sunrise overlay instead of adding it to another tree. ;-)

-- 
Thomas Sachau

Gentoo Linux Developer


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[gentoo-dev] Re: Diff between Funtoo and Gentoo as an overlay

[Torsten Veller]

* Sebastian Pipping <webmaster@hartwork.org>:
>   - perl-experimental

| * Catalyst-Plugin-Authentication - 0.100091 (Infrastructure plugin for the Catalyst authentication framework)

Old version. Was replaced by up-to-date stuff.

| * Date-Manip - 5.54 (Date manipulation routines)

_Date-Manip_ is in the tree as DateManip and was removed in June.

| * Image-ExifTool - 7.60 (Read and write meta information)

_Image-ExifTool_ is in the tree as media-libs/exiftool.

| * Netscape-Bookmarks - 1.95 (Netscape bookmarks)
| * Netscape-Bookmarks-Sourceforge - 2.2.02 (Netscape Bookmarks)

Those two aren't available in Gentoo.

| * Wx-Perl-Dialog - 0.04 (Abstract dialog class for simple dialog creation)

_Wx-Perl-Dialog_ was removed in March.

| * catalystframework - 5.7015 (Meta package for Catalyst - The Elegant MVC Web Applicatio)

_catalystframework_ was removed in Feb.



So Funtoo should sync more often.