From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M9yKk-0000oK-LS for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 29 May 2009 09:25:02 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29BAFE0436; Fri, 29 May 2009 09:25:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from castor.sshunet.nl (castor.sshunet.nl [145.97.192.41]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2779E0436 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 09:25:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by castor.sshunet.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E6A57C009 for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 11:25:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at castor.sshunet.nl Received: from castor.sshunet.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (castor.sshunet.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5KKP7j7GVE5Z for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 11:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [145.97.222.205] (205pc222.sshunet.nl [145.97.222.205]) by castor.sshunet.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 29 May 2009 11:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4A1FA98E.2090502@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:23:26 +0200 From: "Marijn Schouten (hkBst)" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] How not to discuss References: <20090527210642.6b7b0f21@snowcone> <20090528004518.5a4f91b5@snowcone> <200905280828.13024.patrick@gentoo.org> <20090528191457.21ab4546@snowcone> <4A1EE2C0.4070002@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 20e305d8-6261-4f55-9893-48427dc9915d X-Archives-Hash: d13e6eb5e9a806a78931f30b3eb1a5bc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Piotr Jaroszy=C5=84ski wrote: > I think what you are missing is that some people (me included) think > that the in-file approach is the cleanest and most obvious solution > (which also happens to not hurt performance). So if you want "bad > design" to be an objective argument you need to back it up with > something concrete. For example, could you foresee any actual problems > of the in-filename approach? Cause all I was hearing was "it doesn't > look nice" which now is "oh no, don't expose metadata". The former is > clearly subjective and the latter is already done ($PN-$PV) and > doesn't seem to cause any problems. What we care about doing is being able to install a package of a known na= me, PN, with a known version, PV, and we may even want to make sure that the revi= sion, PR, is just right. Therefore PN, PV and PR are not metadata, but actual d= ata to identify a specific software unit. (This is also why PR should be bumped = if (and mostly only if) there are changes to files that will be installed.) On the other hand, EAPI is a value that encodes what is valid in an ebuil= d and as such is an implementation detail. Exposing implementation details is b= ad design. Actually I think just changing extensions is also an implementation detai= l. If we need the user to make certain upgrades (portage, bash) before being ab= le to use certain ebuilds then we should just tell them. What else are news ite= ms for? As long as we provide an upgrade path from version X_years_old to version X_days_old via versions A, B and C, I think we have done our part. In fac= t we already had one such situation with bash and portage. Marijn - -- If you cannot read my mind, then listen to what I say. Marijn Schouten (hkBst), Gentoo Lisp project, Gentoo ML , #gentoo-{lisp,ml} on FreeNode -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkofqY4ACgkQp/VmCx0OL2xOLQCgqkXnwaThpT2oOdpiliS7SHRa pt8An3/S6O+LiXkzQBRPsw0zRUmxhNZp =3DNtpj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----