From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M4uIn-0004yZ-8N for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:05 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F5D9E037F; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pollux.sshunet.nl (pollux.sshunet.nl [145.97.192.42]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F28E037F for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pollux.sshunet.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F31580016 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:06:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at pollux.warande.net Received: from pollux.sshunet.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pollux.sshunet.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZKDijqGd7OgP for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:06:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [145.97.222.214] (214pc222.sshunet.nl [145.97.222.214]) by pollux.sshunet.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:06:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4A0D3E3B.5010108@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:04:43 +0200 From: "Marijn Schouten (hkBst)" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: Project proposal -- maintainer-wanted References: <1242261133.23088.82.camel@localhost> <4A0B738F.3030000@allenjb.me.uk> <4A0C2E6B.1040107@gentoo.org> <200905150943.57830.bangert@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <200905150943.57830.bangert@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 1398ef57-66ab-4336-8005-0cc3672bcf00 X-Archives-Hash: 420d55c023ec37736bb86612305c2470 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thilo Bangert wrote: > Richard Freeman said: >> AllenJB wrote: >>> All that's going to happen is Gentoo will have many many buggy and >>> out of date packages in the MAIN TREE. Exactly where they shouldn't >>> be. You claim quality won't be sacrificed, but I simply can't see >>> this without any attempt to solve the manpower issues first. >>> >>> Isn't the purpose of this project already somewhat covered by >>> Sunrise? >> I have to agree with your points. We need to have quality standards >> for packages. Currently we have a couple of tiers: >> >> 1. Main tree - every ebuild has an official maintainer and gets prompt >> security updates/etc. New features might get a little more stale, but >> you aren't going to be running at risk if you only use the main tree >> and routinely emerge -u world. If a package falls behind on security >> it gets masked and booted. >> >> 2. Overlays - you're on your own and at the general mercy of the >> overlay maintainer. >> >> 3. Sunrise (just a special case of an overlay) - somewhere in-between. >> Again, you have to opt-in. >> > > AFAIK, we have never explicitly made this distinction clear. if we had, we > would have to remove stuff from portage which doesnt live up to the > standards. We should try to work with the maintainers of those packages to improve things. > it is also not true from a more real world perspective: there are many > packages in portage that have a standard which is much lower than what is > in some overlays. and there are many packages in overlays which live up to > a quality standard way above portage's average. This is probably true, but without knowing which is which we can't do much about it. Even if we did know, that still doesn't mean packages could be moved from overlays to main tree, as they would instantly become unmaintained. > if you want to exaggerate a bit, we have roughly 500 ebuilds in portage > which are maintainer-needed and have only a few users and thats why you > want to keep popular packages out of the tree? If packages are popular enough someone will care enough to add and maintain them. > its weird, how this whole thing started with wanting to accomodate our > users better and then other people come around and argue against it in > order to protect our users... > user who want protection run stable arch! Perhaps there are pros and cons to actually doing this, like with most things. It seems like some are arguing that the value of having more ebuilds outweighs the bad of having more less-maintained ebuilds. Others may feel differently. > given the current state of the tree, its hypocritical to be against this > proposal, IMHO. See above. > however, one could try to implement the above quality standards, possibly > by splitting up the tree. Overlays are effectively a splitting of the tree, so we are already there. > this issue, as well as some others very similar to this one, have come up > many times before. I suggest we do something about it... (splitting the > tree or moving more stuff wholesale into portage and have a better rating > system... whatever) > > Fedora is a much more current distribution than Gentoo - and has been for > a couple of years... Please elaborate what exactly you think Fedora does better than we do. I have no first-hand experience with Fedora, but from what I read I had the impression that sometimes they go with new stuff before it is ready, like KDE4 and pulseaudio. I like about the current situation that we also have all those things available AFAICS, but have very broad choices in how much we want to bleed. IMO this is a different issue than having supposedly popular ebuilds not in main tree. I think there is a steady inflow of fresh developers from sunrise (and other places). Does anyone have a chart? I'd also like to know from prospective developers if they have trouble getting recruited, through sunrise or other projects. Marijn - -- If you cannot read my mind, then listen to what I say. Marijn Schouten (hkBst), Gentoo Lisp project, Gentoo ML , #gentoo-{lisp,ml} on FreeNode -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoNPjsACgkQp/VmCx0OL2x/lgCgrvL/3f0XqLJPEe6+BOCl/0R8 j3kAn1jLAW1flDAZt7wu9IuSMO3jtmZe =szxf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----