From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JZqcc-00065C-6W for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:49:38 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75A6BE0AB2; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:49:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from postak-2.fzu.cz (pc175e.fzu.cz [147.231.127.175]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F398E0AB2 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:49:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from postak-3.fzu.cz (postak3.fzu.cz [10.128.1.5]) by postak-2.fzu.cz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m2DGn7vr021215 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:49:07 +0100 Received: from [10.18.6.23] (nat5.suchdol.net [82.208.33.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by postak-3.fzu.cz (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m2DGnFfd028606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:49:15 +0100 Message-ID: <47D95B07.20504@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:49:11 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= Organization: Gentoo User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Help offered - Portage tree References: <430880c50803121635g294f505av259707f7e6a746bb@mail.gmail.com> <47D86B47.9000905@gentoo.org> <430880c50803121657h4839c344t8e3e06040eaef479@mail.gmail.com> <200803130833.09949.bangert@gentoo.org> <430880c50803130224p3a1f71f7x465dbae7bc8a7a40@mail.gmail.com> <20080313102733.GD26950@curie-int.orbis-terrarum.net> <430880c50803130553o6a1c10f1sbc8df84f3e1a6cfb@mail.gmail.com> <430880c50803130610q91d2348q559ef9e66378b6c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <430880c50803130610q91d2348q559ef9e66378b6c@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig72C003B27A3184F8BE54EBE0" X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Sendmail with Milter API 5.6.20, bases: 20080313 #627666, check: 20080313 clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.9-postak (2007-02-13) on postak2.fzu.cz X-Archives-Salt: f982869f-9581-489f-bebf-9223d5e6e238 X-Archives-Hash: 933d70f1427a89690b085d3d13ac38d2 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig72C003B27A3184F8BE54EBE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fabio Erculiani wrote: > ^^ This is a really stupid sentence. It seems some of you don't even > realize how many users we brought to Gentoo, and this is really sad. I'm not sure I understand how exactly you bring people to Gentoo. You=20 bring people to your distribution which is a binary rebuilt of Gentoo,=20 AFAIK. Or do you have a steady stream of users drifting away from=20 Sabayon to Gentoo? > You see, people like Halcy0n, agaffney, zlin keep us away from > interacting with you.=20 "Us" being you or who exactly? Halcy0n was just trying to understand=20 what exactly are you going to improve. > If you want to stop bad press, you (all) should firstly become more > gentle with users and external contributors.> I am not talking to you > directly Robin, but to whom are quite annoying and provocative. I know > that the majority of you have been always kind, but I will never hang > on #gentoo-dev anymore just to be played around giving me voice until > I annoy someone with my POV. Well, I was trying pretty hard last night to hear interesting=20 suggestions from you which could be actually implemented. I have even=20 asked the same questions as Halcy0n did, yet you call him a "bad guy"=20 and not me. That's strange. Anyway, please take your time to read the=20 following and think about it. Perhaps you'll find out that we aren't a=20 group of lazy and angry morons, but a group of people that respect each=20 other and wants to get technical issues solved, but with limited time at = hand. All you said yesterday was "I don't have time to wait till my bugs are=20 fixed, gimme access so that I can fix them myself". As we have been=20 trying to tell you in more than two hours, this is not how things work.=20 In Gentoo, we respect other developers' work, so if we see a flaw in=20 their code, we speak to them about it and don't go blindly fixing stuff=20 without prior chat with maintainers. Having more than 13k packages in the three, no single person can be=20 expected to know the whole tree well. That's why we are organized into=20 groups and generally talk to each other before fixing bugs. A change you = make might have huge impact on packages you haven't ever heard of. During the chat, you proposed various things like "having a mailing=20 lists where child distributions could send bugreports they find". This=20 is not the way to go. We already have a support channel, the Bugzilla.=20 There is really no way to speed up maintainers' reactions. That doesn't=20 depend on how they get the reports, but entirely on their spare time and = motivation. If you don't like working with bugzilla's web interface, you've been=20 already offered another access vectors to the bugzilla database. But let me repeat it once again -- if you are worried about maintainers=20 taking "long time" to respond (where "long time" is, by your definition, = at about "more than two hours", if I understand you correctly), there's=20 no way I'm aware of that this could be changed. We are just humans who=20 have to sleep, eat, work, date beautiful girls and drink beer. We are=20 not going to abandon any of these just to make the "child distributions" = happy, sorry. I have quite a mixed feelings about your offer, too -- you said you're=20 willing to fix stuff, yet you refuse to file bugs, giving a reason that=20 it "takes time". That doesn't make much sense to me, sorry. If you don't = file the bug, the same error will stay in the package, it will propagate = to each and every next release and you'll have to fix it over and over=20 again in your code. > This is not a democratic way, let's talk > publicly here, without hiding in a development channel, we probably > get more visibility, don't we? I'm afraid I don't fully understand your point here -- Gentoo is not=20 about democracy as in "what majority wants, that happens". If it was=20 such kind of "democracy", we'd have reiser4 as a default filesystem for=20 three years now. In Gentoo, things that happen are things that=20 developers want. If you're bored with that, hey, become a developer and=20 change stuff. Asking us to change the way we work, the process that has=20 worked for many years and that we are happy with, just because it might=20 give some benefits to your distribution, while also causing more work=20 for us, that simply won't happen. Please, try to think about our reasons. Cheers, -jkt --=20 cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth --------------enig72C003B27A3184F8BE54EBE0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH2VsHamXfqERyJRcRAjjhAKCO3XlClJs1FqX6SvGCdamnkkTXSgCcDrIK t+XQOm0izbHHFkpMplHYAR8= =+R6d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig72C003B27A3184F8BE54EBE0-- -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list