From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JZo5D-0003TM-W3 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:07:00 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 498D0E0AA8; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:06:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235E3E0AA8 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:06:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.186] (cable-186-3.zeelandnet.nl [82.176.186.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2204864854 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:06:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <47D93543.3010706@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:08:03 +0100 From: Ben de Groot Organization: Gentoo Linux User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080228) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Help offered - Portage tree References: <430880c50803121635g294f505av259707f7e6a746bb@mail.gmail.com> <47D86B47.9000905@gentoo.org> <430880c50803121657h4839c344t8e3e06040eaef479@mail.gmail.com> <200803130833.09949.bangert@gentoo.org> <430880c50803130224p3a1f71f7x465dbae7bc8a7a40@mail.gmail.com> <20080313102733.GD26950@curie-int.orbis-terrarum.net> <430880c50803130553o6a1c10f1sbc8df84f3e1a6cfb@mail.gmail.com> <430880c50803130610q91d2348q559ef9e66378b6c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <430880c50803130610q91d2348q559ef9e66378b6c@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: fef9a832-379e-4e82-885b-a156d53cf833 X-Archives-Hash: aab14302f551efc2eb90d718fe209111 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fabio Erculiani wrote: | [02:31] lxnay: we offer all of our work that you base your | distribution off, and you don't contribute back at all, in any way. | | ^^ This is a really stupid sentence. It seems some of you don't even | realize how many users we brought to Gentoo, and this is really sad. Saying 'this is stupid' won't convince anyone and moreover damage your attempt to build any positive relationship. If the statement is false, simply show with a few examples that it isn't true. To react to a (perceived) personal attack with anger (even if justified) and (more) mudslinging is not going to achieve anything than a further breakdown of communication. Try a more political approach, if you want to get your point across. Personally, I admire your attempt to contribute back and get bugs fixed. I am all for better relationships between Gentoo and Sabayon, because I believe cooperation will be to our mutual benefit. So I think the discussion should concentrate on: ~ - what are the best ways to contribute ~ - what are the best channels to get bugs fixed ~ - how could we streamline these processes I can't believe there is any serious dev that would not want improvement. On the other hand, we are all volunteers and have limited time. Also, there is the natural tendency in most people to stick with the known, to resist changes. And in a big organisation such as Gentoo there will always be various differing points of view. The resulting bureaucracy and politics is something we have to live with, improving it where we can. Therefore, I think that if you really want to improve things, you will have to work with the current infrastructure. Keep filing bugs in bugzilla, keep contributing patches, keep trying to work with other devs, and you _will_ gain respect. That way you will also be in a much better position to suggest changes and to propose ways of streamlining processes. It may take a fair bit of investing time and even swallowing pride. But if you do the work, and let personal attacks and annoyances slide off your thick skin, you _will_ create a win-win situation. Honestly wishing you the best, Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH2TVDi+u7I1rvkiYRAm9xAKCTQWLeZ7n6q8K2c+Ugohy+WbbhvgCgh4xo 3Od/xgRiAMyK5Wu1WG6niQc= =N4R3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list