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Message-ID: <469FDEB9.70905@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:59:21 +0100
From: George Prowse <cokehabit@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev]  Re: Improving developer/user communication (was
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:22:19 +0100
> George Prowse <cokehabit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not my point. My point is that most Gentoo users would either not
>>> see the question or not respond. Those that both see the question
>>> and take time to respond are highly atypical.
>> If you were clever enough and wanted the largest amount of answers
>> you would put the questions around ever communication channel gentoo
>> has, you would then get the opinions of the majority of users.
> 
> No, you'd still be way off. You'd still only get the opinions of users
> who actively monitor Gentoo communication channels. It's well
> established from the fallout of previous changes that no matter how
> widely something is communicated, most people won't see it until their
> system breaks and they try to find out why.

So you think nothing should be done because some people don't interact 
in the Gentoo communication channels?
> 
>>>> I wish ALL users would vote in a poll on the forums
>>> That wouldn't tell you what all users want though. It would tell you
>>> what forum users who take the time to respond to a poll want. Again,
>>> not a representative sample. And that's the issue at hand -- Gentoo
>>> has an extremely hard time delivering information to most users.
>>> Getting information back is even trickier. The set of people who
>>> respond is heavily skewed towards better-informed users who have
>>> time to seek out and participate in that kind of questioning.
>> Ahhhhh, now I see! The fact that we would get answers from some users
>> is the reason why it shouldn't be done
> 
> No no. The fact that some people would use those answers to make design
> decisions is why it shouldn't be done.

So those people that would reply would make wrong 
suggestions/answers/whatever..

Thats a pretty bold comment when one of the main Off The Wall posters 
codes rocket propulsion software for the British Government.
> 
>>>> as to what we the users want and what direction we want Gentoo to
>>>> go in.
>>> I want guaranteed total stability, instantly available updates,
>>> guaranteed backwards compatibility, the ability to install any
>>> package from source using my configuration of choice in under
>>> fifteen seconds and a herd of nubile bisexual redheads. Can Gentoo
>>> deliver that?
>> Irrelevant conclusion
> 
> Not at all. What users *want* is something that can't be done. Most
> users don't have the technical knowledge to realise that what they want
> is impossible. Asking users will thus merely get a long list of
> impossible goals.

People at Gentoo tend to know what they would like, if they suggest 
something that is unobtainable and are given reasons why, 2 things would 
happen:

1. They would have a greater respect for the developers for actually trying.
2. They would have knowlege to be able to suggest an alternative.
> 
>>>> It's no different than elections here in the US, people gripe but
>>>> most of the gripers don't vote.
>>> Do you really think it would make any difference if they did? All it
>>> would do is lend credibility to the process, and provide people with
>>> the argument "well you voted so you agree to accept the decision of
>>> the majority".
>> It would make a difference in the relations between users and
>> developers.
> 
> Yes, lots of users would be extremely annoyed when they're told "sorry,
> we're not going to deliver all those things you asked for".
> 
>> Being a user yourself, why are you so against yourself having a say?
> 
> I have a say, as does anyone else who feels like contributing. Were
> things moved to a poll, no-one would have a say at all.
> 
That doesn't stop you having your say by contributing...
-- 
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