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From: Michael Cummings <mcummings@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:42:44 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <469B67C4.4010702@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <469B6006.9040805@gentoo.org>

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Vlastimil Babka wrote:
> Are you people serious? Let's ban nondevs from bugzilla then? Close
> #gentoo, disband PR, etc? Not sure if we can keep any sponsors then...

...or devs...

Seriously, no users == no community. Why? Because devs don't get along
with each other well enough to qualify as a community. It's really the
untold masses that make Gentoo a community. What's one of the top
resources cited as the greatness of Gentoo? The wiki. Which isn't even
official or sanctioned, but that is instead run largely by the community
at large.

Bah. This entire debate is extremely disheartening. How many devs out
there sprung from the ground pre-formed, and how many started out as
users in the community? *That* is the pool from which we draw our ranks,
from which we get our support and direction. This elitist attitude is
what drives the rationale devs to be hermits and just answer to their
small piece of the pie - because we don't give two figs about who's ego
is mightiest, just that we are producing something useful that makes us
happy, without breaking things for those dependent on us, the users.

Talk like this, especially from people I respected, makes me question
just what its worth to keep going. If Gentoo is only about the devs,
well, I'm happy with the way things are now, they work for me, so no
sense in working any further on perl-land.

Bah.


- --

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  reply	other threads:[~2007-07-16 12:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 167+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-07-12 20:24 [gentoo-dev] ML changes Mike Doty
2007-07-12 20:31 ` Olivier Crête
2007-07-13  1:54   ` Kumba
2007-07-12 20:31 ` Bryan Østergaard
2007-07-12 20:59   ` Dale
2007-07-12 21:02   ` Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-12 22:11   ` Tom Wesley
2007-07-12 23:05   ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-13  6:31     ` Andrew Cowie
2007-07-12 20:43 ` Jim Ramsay
2007-07-12 20:48   ` Mike Doty
2007-07-12 21:01   ` Josh Saddler
2007-07-12 20:54 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-12 20:54 ` Josh Sled
2007-07-12 20:55 ` expose
2007-07-12 21:43   ` Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-12 22:02     ` expose
2007-07-12 21:12 ` [gentoo-dev] " Tiziano Müller
2007-07-12 21:32   ` Luca Barbato
2007-07-12 23:39     ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-12 21:23 ` [gentoo-dev] " Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-12 21:37 ` Ned Ludd
2007-07-12 21:43 ` Seemant Kulleen
2007-07-12 22:03   ` Jeffrey Gardner
2007-07-12 22:10   ` Denis Dupeyron
     [not found]     ` <1184280935.29731.11.camel@wlt.obsidian-studios.com>
2007-07-12 23:43       ` Jeffrey Gardner
2007-07-12 22:21   ` Krzysiek Pawlik
2007-07-12 22:27     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-12 22:28   ` Marius Mauch
2007-07-12 22:13 ` Michael Krelin
2007-07-12 22:34 ` [gentoo-dev] " Markus Ullmann
2007-07-12 23:57   ` Steve Long
2007-07-12 22:43 ` [gentoo-dev] " Chrissy Fullam
2007-07-12 22:52   ` Chrissy Fullam
2007-07-12 23:17   ` Marius Mauch
2007-07-15  7:14     ` Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
2007-07-13  0:17   ` Robert Buchholz
2007-07-13  0:56     ` Ned Ludd
2007-07-14  2:34       ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-13  7:20   ` [gentoo-dev] " Togge
2007-07-12 22:46 ` Ned Ludd
2007-07-12 22:55 ` [gentoo-dev] " Stefan Schweizer
2007-07-12 23:28   ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-12 22:58 ` [gentoo-dev] " Mike Kelly
2007-07-12 23:26 ` Olivier Galibert
2007-07-13  0:50 ` Will Briggs
2007-07-13  1:01 ` [gentoo-dev] " Ryan Hill
2007-07-13  5:11   ` Duncan
2007-07-17 11:20     ` Paul de Vrieze
2007-07-13  1:41 ` [gentoo-dev] " Daniel Ostrow
2007-07-13  1:52   ` Daniel Ostrow
2007-07-13  3:45   ` [gentoo-dev] " Ryan Hill
2007-07-13  5:22   ` Duncan
2007-07-13 15:40   ` [gentoo-dev] " Donnie Berkholz
2007-07-13 17:24     ` Joe Peterson
2007-07-15  7:14   ` Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen
2007-07-13  1:59 ` Kumba
2007-07-13  2:30   ` Kevin Lacquement
2007-07-13  3:06     ` Kumba
2007-07-13  3:13       ` Kevin Lacquement
2007-07-13  4:06         ` Kumba
2007-07-13  6:34 ` [gentoo-dev] " Christian Faulhammer
2007-07-13 17:12   ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-13 17:30     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-17 18:14     ` Roy Bamford
2007-07-13  6:41 ` [gentoo-dev] " Peter Gordon
2007-07-13  6:49   ` Peter Gordon
2007-07-13  7:11   ` Seemant Kulleen
2007-07-13 14:14     ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-13 14:26       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-13 14:39         ` Roy Marples
2007-07-13 15:08         ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-13 15:34           ` Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-17 11:29             ` Paul de Vrieze
2007-07-13 15:31         ` Vieri Di Paola
2007-07-13 18:14           ` [gentoo-dev] " Markus Ullmann
2007-07-13 17:35       ` [gentoo-dev] " Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-13 18:28         ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-13 15:39     ` Donnie Berkholz
2007-07-13 17:41       ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-14  3:03         ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-13 15:56     ` [gentoo-dev] " Jim Ramsay
2007-07-13 18:53       ` Chris Scullard
2007-07-13 19:37         ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-13 19:59           ` Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-13 22:10           ` lnxg33k
2007-07-13 17:33     ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-13 17:47       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-14  0:13       ` Seemant Kulleen
2007-07-14  2:11         ` Robin H. Johnson
2007-07-14  3:34           ` Josh Saddler
2007-07-14  4:51           ` Kumba
2007-07-14 19:14         ` Ferris McCormick
2007-07-17 11:25     ` Paul de Vrieze
2007-07-13 17:25   ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-13 17:37     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-13 18:04     ` darren kirby
2007-07-13 18:44       ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-13 18:51         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-13 19:04           ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-14 10:20             ` Will Briggs
2007-07-14 17:25               ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-15  7:54                 ` Will Briggs
2007-07-15 11:16                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2007-07-13 12:20 ` [gentoo-dev] " Piotr Jaroszyński
2007-07-13 13:21 ` Grant Goodyear
2007-07-13 19:46 ` [gentoo-dev] Smoother moderation scheme? (was: ML changes) Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-13 22:00   ` Olivier Galibert
2007-07-13 23:53   ` [gentoo-dev] Smoother moderation scheme? Luca Barbato
2007-07-13 23:54   ` [gentoo-dev] Smoother moderation scheme? (was: ML changes) Jeroen Roovers
2007-07-14  1:41   ` [gentoo-dev] Smoother moderation scheme? Ken
2007-07-14  5:36     ` Alin Năstac
2007-07-14 16:24       ` [gentoo-dev] " Ryan Hill
2007-07-14 17:43         ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-14 20:48           ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-14 21:07             ` William L. Thomson Jr.
2007-07-15  3:54 ` [gentoo-dev] ML changes Daniel Drake
2007-07-15 10:45   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2007-07-15 23:13     ` Kumba
2007-07-16  9:03       ` Duncan
2007-07-16 16:41   ` [gentoo-dev] " Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-17  9:36     ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2007-07-15 21:59 ` [gentoo-dev] " Matthias Langer
2007-07-15 22:21   ` Andrew Gaffney
2007-07-16  3:14     ` Will Briggs
2007-07-16 22:06       ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-16 22:30         ` George Prowse
2007-07-16 23:09           ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-17  0:18             ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-17  1:00               ` [gentoo-dev] " Chrissy Fullam
2007-07-17  1:34                 ` George Prowse
2007-07-16 23:13         ` Will Briggs
2007-07-16  6:18   ` Donnie Berkholz
2007-07-16 11:45     ` Andrew Gaffney
2007-07-16 12:09       ` Vlastimil Babka
2007-07-16 12:42         ` Michael Cummings [this message]
2007-07-16 13:15           ` Marius Mauch
2007-07-16 13:47             ` Andrew Gaffney
2007-07-16 15:00               ` Richard Freeman
2007-07-16 17:43           ` Donnie Berkholz
2007-07-16 13:46         ` Andrew Gaffney
2007-07-16 16:17           ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-16 17:21             ` Wulf C. Krueger
2007-07-16 12:37       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michael Krelin
2007-07-16 22:17         ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-16 23:37           ` Michael Krelin
2007-07-16 22:11       ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-16 23:27         ` George Prowse
2007-07-16 12:34     ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-16 13:29       ` Alin Năstac
2007-07-16 17:45       ` Donnie Berkholz
2007-07-16 17:49         ` Jakub Moc
2007-07-16 20:55           ` Thomas Tuttle
2007-07-16 22:15       ` Chris Gianelloni
2007-07-17  0:15         ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-16 18:16     ` [gentoo-dev] " George Prowse
2007-07-16 18:35       ` Donnie Berkholz
2007-07-17  0:25         ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-16 20:02 ` [gentoo-dev] " Peter Weller
2007-07-16 20:12   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2007-07-17  0:28     ` [gentoo-dev] " Steve Long
2007-07-16 22:22 ` Torsten Veller
2007-07-16 22:27   ` Andrew Gaffney
2007-07-17  7:33   ` Wernfried Haas
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-07-13 19:10 [gentoo-dev] " Christina Fullam
2007-07-14 21:03 Christina Fullam
2007-07-15  2:23 ` Dawid Węgliński

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