From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1I9AyX-0006Sk-Rd for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:33:46 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l6D2Wnna032271; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:32:49 GMT Received: from barmail1.idig.net (barmail1.idig.net [64.34.111.254]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l6D2UmFU030020 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:30:49 GMT Received: from nweb1.idig.net (nweb1.idig.net [216.187.70.70]) by barmail1.idig.net (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id E2D9C7A14E1 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blk-138-49-15.eastlink.ca ([24.138.49.15] helo=lacqui.lacqui.com) by nweb1.idig.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I9Ave-0008D8-5c for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:30:47 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lacqui.lacqui.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02FB6C0108 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:30:38 -0300 (ADT) Message-ID: <4696E3CE.50206@lacqui.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:30:38 -0300 From: Kevin Lacquement User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070711) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes References: <46968E00.4070202@gentoo.org> <4696DC92.2010602@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4696DC92.2010602@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - nweb1.idig.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - lacqui.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Archives-Salt: 13a47e55-468e-4d11-93eb-a151b7c09f48 X-Archives-Hash: cc86f33c826e30ff5692d6a34659448c Kumba wrote: > - I envisioned three mailing lists, essentially: > * core > * dev > * project > > - core: private, dev-only mailing list for internal discussion > > * Possibility: becomes read-only to the public after > a set time limit, possibly 1, 2, 4, or 6 months. > Certain messages and threads could be marked (via > some feature, for example) to remain permanently > private, and thus would never be readable by the > public. This policy would NOT apply retroactively. I'm not sure about stuff in -core becoming publicly accessible. After all, isn't it in the private list for a reason? Perhaps summaries of -core discussions being forwarded to -dev would be a better option. However, I'm new to -dev, so if this is what already happens I don't know. > > > - dev: open, dev and user mailing list for technical discussions > about > the gentoo project. Topics would include package > addition/removal/masking announcements, EAPI discussions, > package development questions/inquires (i.e., from users, > but NOT help -- gentoo-user exists for that). Here's where we want the non-devs to get access. After all, not all development and debugging is done by devs. All the current devs were, at one point, users. Where did they get their start? My bet is they entered via the -dev mailing list, learned the ropes here, and eventually earned their dev status. If the -dev list is closed, where do the new dev-wannabes learn the ropes and get their voices heard? > > * Possibility: Package changes, such as moves, > deletions, additions, and so forth could also be > routed automatically to a -dev-announce ML, possibly > by prefixing the subject field with "[ANNOUNCEMENT]:" > (This prefix, would of course, be stripped by the > automatic mailer before posting to -dev-announce). Would it perhaps be better to send announcements to -dev-announce, and have that list forward to -dev? That way we avoid issues if a subject starts with [ANNONUCEMENT], for example > > * Possibility: topics could also include developer > recruitment and developer departure emails. However, > these may need to be sparse and impersonal (almost > machine-like) where-in it may be announced who joined > (First/Last name, developer name, IRC handle, etc..), > herd they'll be joining, and duties they'll perform, > including packages they may be maintaining. These can > also be routed to a -dev-announce ML. If these messages will be machine-like, why not have them machine-generated? When you become a dev, someone (you? the person that -dev-ifie's you?) fills out a form, and the information from the form is forwarded to the list. [snip -project] > > Basically, moderation is a tool to me, a tool that should be used > sparingly. Not used as a blanket cover, with the occasional someone > lifting up that blanket to peek outside (save that for the monster under > the bed). That said, however, I don't think we should totally dismiss > the idea of blanket moderation. > > Rather, I think we should first implement -project, put out enough > information to get people to use it, and watch it for a few months. By > and large, we may discover that simply giving another list for the > non-technical discussions may fix the problems on -dev, and moderation > won't be needed on either list. If, on the other hand, problems still > arise on -dev that -project did not address (or may've been potentially > created by -project's creation), then we can revisit the option of > blanket moderation then. I agree with this. Also, it gives a transition time for people to get used to the new idea. Don't create -project, then 3 months later say "that didn't work, we need to moderate -dev". Give it a little more time than that. Ensure that people are reminded, especially at the beginning, that there may be a more appropriate forum. > > Simply put: One Step At A Time. > > > > Cheers, > > --Kumba > My 2 non-dev cents, Kevin -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list